Junk Dealers will hurt Hipstamp

John Coles

Listings like below Cheapens Hipstamp. Dealers / Sellers that post crap like below need to remove it or be kicked from Hipstamp.

Dale Snyder

When I looked the original pictures in the first post, the first thing I thought was.... "there is a manuscript cancel I don't have! Too bad the stamp is so beat up." At some point in my collecting efforts, depending on how many holes are left, the last stamp in that group may become more attractive to me. Even low money stamps may appeal to someone.

For example..... I am seven stamps short of completing my Portugal collection I started as a teenager. Over the years I have replaced the space fillers with quality copies. All that is left is a few low dollar stamps that I have been unable to find, not because they are rare but because they are not worth someone's time to list.

Note to sellers: Here is how buyers like me shop.... search for a missing stamp from our collection, get excited when we see one, add it to the cart, browse the rest of that sellers offerings looking for things on our want list, add matches to the cart up to my current stamp budget, checkout.

I was shopping here yesterday and I found a 20 cent stamp I needed. Bought everything else the seller had that was on my want list. Turned into a $64 purchase. Was that worth the seller's time?

I had replaced a space filler of a $1500 stamp that had perf problems and a thin. Before listing it for sale I decided to remove a substantial pencil mark from the back. I caught the edge and ripped the damn thing 3/4 the way down the center of the stamp. Still looked good from the front, listed it for $10 properly described and pictured, sold two days later, shipped it half way around the world and made a happy collector.

My point to all this is mot every collector is looking for only expensive stamps. Maybe I don't understand the purpose of Hipstamp. I thought this was a place for sellers and buyers to come together and enjoy a thriving marketplace to make sales and expand collections. With the attitude of some of the posters in this thread it seems I have that wrong. Could it be we need a "Hipstamp-Elite.com" for the stamp snobs that won't then be bothered by lowly collectors like me?

Charles Hass

With regard to sellers placing damaged stamps for sale on Hipstamp.com, I have some comments to share. I have been a serious and inquisitive philatelist/researcher for 63 years, non-stop, since the age of eight (I'm now 71).
My major areas of concentration for more than 50 of those years were Egypt and Sudan, particularly on the overprinted/surcharged issues. I delved deeply into many of the little-understood, or terribly misunderstood, aspects of the philately of both countries.
From 1966 until 1994, I spent 28 years in various highly technical areas of the printing-prep industry, working with typography, lithography (offset, as well as classical [i.e., "stone"]), and photogravure. I was also privileged to spend time with a group of gifted craftsmen who kindly educated me about the finer points of steel/recess/intaglio engraving. As a result of my long, hands-on experience in those fields, I have developed a deep and invaluable understanding of postage-stamp printing, a skill that is essential to my philatelic pursuits.
In order to properly study, in-depth, the various issues upon which I concentrated: Sudan's 1897-1907 First-Issue overprints on Egyptian stamps and postal stationery; Sudan's "ARMY OFFICIAL" and "Army Service" overprints, etc.; Egypt's 1866 1st Issue; Egypt's 1922-1923 "Kingdom" and "O.H.E.M.S" overprints; Egypt's 1953-1956 3-barred King Farouk portrait-obliteration overprints; the overprinted stamps of Egyptian-occupied Palestine and Gaza, just to name a few), I found that I needed to obtain large quantities of stamps for my research.
It took me many years of effort (and expense) to accumulate a substantial holding of the stamps and covers from my chosen fields of research (at one point, I had over 30,000 examples of one stamp!) Having the necessary “fuel for the fire” enabled me to spend thousands of hours on my projects, and I eventually developed a comprehensive knowledge of their characteristics and of their various printings. During those years, I attended hundreds of stamp shows, both here and abroad. I made many trips to Egypt from 1977 to 1998 (generally for a month each time), interacting with fellow philatelists and dealers in Cairo and in Alexandria (I even went to Sudan in 1998). Some of my most productive efforts involved visiting the bundle dealers (in the poorer areas, where I would not even dare to go today!) Thankfully, I was able to obtain large quantities of material (including many full sheets and panes, no longer easily found). As the years progressed, with the birth of the Internet and of online stamp-sales venues, I was further able to obtain the material that I needed.
HERE (AT LAST!) IS THE POINT OF MY LENGTHY MISSIVE: If one wishes to obtain large numbers of stamps for philatelic research, then THE CONCERN THAT EVERY STAMP OBTAINED FOR STUDY HAS TO BE WITHOUT FAULTS (I.E., IN PERFECT CONDITION) MUST TAKE A BACK SEAT TO THE NECESSITY OF ACCUMULATING A SUFFICIENT NUMBER OF EXAMPLES FOR ONE'S PROJECT! IT IS AN INDISPUTABLE FACT THAT STAMPS WITH DEFECTS STILL ARE USEFUL, THAT THEY STILL ARE ABLE TO TELL THEIR STORY! In accumulating items for my research, I accepted this fact. The knowledge that I acquired by studying large quantities of examples of ostensibly the same stamp, both sound and defective, enabled me to complete a number of projects.
In 2003, after seven years of mind-boggling preparation, Joe Chalhoub and I released "THE NILE POST HANDBOOK AND CATALOGUE OF EGYPTIAN STAMPS", an 860-page, exhaustively detailed, hardbound reference work, containing the expansive results of many of my various studies, including a 25-page chapter on ALL of the aspects of the stamps and postal stationery of the Sudan First Issue. In addition to its chapters (listing and explaining a multitude of errors and varieties) covering the definitives, the commemoratives, the airmails, the officials, the express stamps, the postage dues, etc., there are also extensive chapters covering: Egyptian essays; the stamps of the Suez Canal Company; the stamps and postal stationery of the French Post Offices in Alexandrie and Port-Saïd; the NAAFI letter seals and letter stamps; the stamps of Egyptian Palestine/Gaza, etc., etc.)
Thankfully, "The Nile Post" now has become the Egypt "bible" for a large percentage of the global philatelic auction houses, and it is used by many collectors and dealers as the essential reference work for Egyptian stamps. MUCH OF MY RESEARCH, AS PUBLISHED IN THE BOOK, COULD NOT HAVE BEEN COMPLETED WITHOUT MY STUDY OF DEFECTIVE STAMPS!
We should all bear in mind, WHEN PURCHASING FAULTY STAMPS (OR COVERS), THAT THE PRICE PAID MUST BE BASED UPON THE ITEM’S CONDITION! There is no question that many online sellers offer damaged stamps (i.e., thinned, pulled perfs, missing corners, creases, missing pieces, etc.) and covers (i.e., missing or damaged adhesives, fronts only, folds through the stamps, offensive stains or marks on the reverse, missing flaps, etc.) without making mention of the faults, and without assigning a fair price based upon the defect(s). In the case of scarce or rare (i.e., "expensive") stamps or covers, this nefarious practice is ABSOLUTELY INEXSCUSABLE! I have paid some pretty hefty prices for better stamps and covers, only to find, when receive them, that they have defects that are not seen in the scans. Nevertheless, even damage to cheap stamps and cheap covers should be mentioned by the seller. Of course, it would be extremely labor-intensive for hipstamp.com to monitor thousands of listings, so the buyer must beware! Most sellers will allow you to return material that has proved to be unsatisfactory, BUT: Some sellers have a “No Returns” policy (I am hesitant to deal with such people), so you should always check the seller’s terms before bidding or purchasing an item.
I have one last story about seemingly defective stamps, and then I will quit! Early last year, while browsing through a seller's store, I came upon a "Buy It Now" offer of a single, used example of Egypt Scott #349, the 10 mills deep violet Farouk definitive with the 3-bars overprint, issued in April of 1953 (arguably one of the most common stamps of Egypt, and the stamp of which I had 30,000 copies). The scan showed that the stamp was missing its northeast corner, a fault not mentioned by the seller, who was asking C$ 0.15. However, what the seller did not realize was that THE 3-BARS OVERPRINT (UNQUESTIONABLY GENUINE) WAS INVERTED! The defective corner therefore was only a small detraction as, until that moment, ONLY TWO EXAMPLES OF THIS INVERT ERROR WERE KNOWN TO EXIST! Both were found by me. One was in a bundle, and the other was used on a postcard. IT IS ONE OF THE RAREST STAMPS OF EGYPT, and is listed in "The Nile Post" as NP#D217c, footnoted as to its rarity (and greatly undervalued, considering today's market for good Egypt). Did I purchase the stamp? You bet! The SPECTACULAR news is that when the stamp arrived, I discovered that the corner was NOT missing! It had been folded backward, behind the stamp. I advise any of you who have examples of Egypt Scott #349 to check them, as you might discover another invert (on a genuine invert, the lengths of the three bars diminish from bottom to top, and their ends taper \ / instead of / \).
The bottom line of this probably all-too-lengthy ramble is that DEFECTIVE STAMPS CAN BE USEFUL. Just be aware of what you are purchasing!
Regards to all, CHARLIE HASS

Jerry Burkhart

well it certainly is not that i plan on buying these stamps but I may have wanted them.. if they had a rare cancel or were a silk variety. I am saying it is absurd to think you or any other member here should have control over what people sell or the price they sell items for. Personally i do not generally buy stamps under $1 but what does that have to do with anything? nothing. Delcampe made a huge mistake baning thru fees cheap stamps. their excuse was server space and resources. a lie. their server space is held up because they never delete a listing going back at least 10 years. all of those past 10 years of listings are on their servers.

the reason it is similar is a thing called "control" the more you attempt to control a thing the more you limit it's abilities. Pricing and quality are just two of the type of controls a site can do. Paypal does not judge quality.. the pictures and description do that. in this case the pictures are doing a great job. :-) so don't confuse buyer protections with the item that is pictured correctly and described correctly though in this case a description is not necessary. Paypal also does not protect against snad on sites other than Ebay unless they have changed their policies in the past years?

using the terms rare , scarce, or any other combination of words in a description are also the the right and in some cases the responsibility of the seller. to control by limits this is "similar". as in all things there is a unreasonable area also as in $1,000,000 5c stamps and foul bad or offensive language in descriptions. extremes become the job of the owners of the site imo

I also have never ever heard of Ebay pulling a stamp because of quality. As far as i know these stamps can be listed on Ebay at any price as long as they are pictured and described correctly. Am i wrong on this?

block bidder buyer seller list are also a great way to allow a site to degenerate to nothing. my opinion, see other thread on this for my details as i will not want to repeat myself on this.

I might also add that most sellers get an idea after a bit of stamps not selling . the problem is the slippery slope and where does it start and end? the site here is not free it is $5 a month or $60 a year. so it would seem silly to post things like this :-) but hey i think they should be allowed to pay. the amount of sellers that can not see the logic in not posting stuff of this quality will be very few . so really not worth creating a controlling rule that would be basically impossible to enforce fairly or with expertise that covers all buyers wants.

Deborah Shohet

Sometimes I think people forget that stamp collecting can just be a hobby. I have had many friends proudly showing me their collections that are filled with faulty stamps. They don't care!
Some people like postmarks and the quality of the stamp is irrelevant. And when I list a decent stamp with a missing corner for 5 - 10% of retail, they get snapped up. Not everyone has heaps of money to spend, and it is not really a requirement for enjoying stamp collecting.

Ron Lenke

If opinions are being aired, then everyone is entitled to mine. Through the years I've often heard there's no one right way to collect and that an individual can freely chose his interests and methods; whether to pursue their selected path cheaply, expensively, casually or seriously....or anywhere in-between. Trying to accommodate this diversity in a single site entity then becomes challenging when appearances are regarded more by, say, discriminating collectors who set standards for their own collections and may unconsciously extend that tight tolerance to their sources of acquisitions. The question of how Hipstamp ought to present itself in light of the varying positions perhaps, ultimately, lies with Mark and his vision. Can the site be inclusionary yet allow for search refinements sufficient for those wanting to limit over-exposure to "undesirable" material? The notion of what is "faulty", while debatable, at least has some parameters in the realm of certification and that may be a filtering mechanism as some have suggested and worthy of consideration. Personally, I find the currently-existing options of progressively-narrowing searches normally quite adequate. To be candid, though, I tend to shun damaged stamps much as a coin collector is wont to reject cleaned coins and I would prefer not wading through such in general listings. I think maybe I've exceeded my two cents worth here, sorry.

James Gunnells

You all should be ashamed of yourselves. This might be a case where somebody could not afford a copy of the stamp otherwise. Let's drive the collectors with poor resources away. Since the minimum Scott value for a common stamp is 0.25, then why not remove all listings for less than that? The site would need to alter their advertising from, for example,"25,000 stamps sold in the last week" to "15, 000 stamps sold in the last week". It would also have to lower the number of members, since as I said some people can't afford the so-called "VF" that so many stamps are falsely listed at. Some sellers seem to have "VF" appended to every stamp they list regardless of how good it is.
So let's get rid of the extraneous "VF" listings while we're at it. That will whittle the number of listings even further. You people should be happy to be the ones to do that, since you want a site that is absolutely perfect, and not for the casual collector.You seem to have so much free time on your hands.

Carlos Verdura

My 1c Washington's worth, I actually think that every stamp collector starts with cool interesting lower value stamps, so there is a need to spend some time selling or sharing the stamps to fill up the spaces. My grandfather was the first stamp dealer in Puerto Rico or rather he owned the first stamp shop there. I started collecting when I was in first grade and soon after became the store's little helper. He got hundreds of kids interested in stamps by selling packages and then single inexpensive stamps for them to fill a hole and a smile on their face, heck they didn't need money, they could help him fill stock books. If we don't all do something to expand stamp collecting. the art of stamps could die with the last one of us.

Charles Eastman

I list DAMAGED stamps, because there are many of the buyers who will buy them as space fillers. I had one buyer in particular, who would only buy space fillers as long as they were priced accordingly. So please don't knock a seller who sells space fillers to the buyers who may thrive on them. MY 2 CENTS WORTH. Gramps and sorry if I offend you, when I do sell some.

Mark Rosenberg

At HipStamp, we aim to provide the best online marketplace for stamp collectors.

There are certainly stamp collectors who do purchase lower priced stamps, well under $1, that may be in various degrees of condition. In fact, they make up a large part of our sales - and we certainly would not want to remove these types of items from HipStamp, when a large amount of our members use our site to purchase said items.

At the same time, there are also stamp collectors who collect higher priced items, and only better graded items. For these collectors, it would obviously be easier to find what they're looking for if the above said items were not included in what they were looking for. That's a completely valid point as well.

With that in mind, everyone should keep in mind that there's nothing wrong with both of the above cases being true - and there's no reason why HipStamp can not cater to both types of buyers. In many cases we do not try to provide a one fit solution, because there are different needs of different stamp collectors. For example, we offer a way to filter by price, Stamp Condition, and many other facets. We're also working on a feature which would allow members to save certain search facets for all of their searches (so for example you could potentially opt to never see items under $1).

I would also suggest that while continuing this particular topic, what would probably be most helpful to keep the conversation moving in a positive direction, but also to help us to improve HipStamp, would be to discuss what type of options and features could potentially be built to help cater to both of the above groups; and therefore improving HipStamp for every stamp collector.

Kurt Lange

Well stated, Charles Hass. Not to mention the obvious that I think is more common than many seem to want to admit:

Many buyers would gladly pay $25 for a CV $350 stamp with faults. It's actually quite common and I'm not sure why it's hard to understand. Collectors come in all shapes and sizes and colors and perfs - not all are looking to pay $350 for a CV $350 stamp. It in no way reflects on the image or integrity of HipStamp. If anything it makes it more inclusive to all and not so uptight and privileged. (NOT saying that the one shown was worth $25 - don't get me wrong)

Doug Noernberg

Sure do remember "Ein Eagle". So sad the pics from the old website of TM's travels are wiped out.... If I knew Mark was going to wipe them, I would have tried to download and save them. :-(

Regarding "junk stamps", I'm of the side that there are markets for them, so although not suitable for everyone, it's ok to purvey them so long as they are priced accordingly. And if you don't like seeing the very low value ones, there's always the minimum price filter available when browsing stamps. Although not a perfect solution, it helps reduce the numbers.

Another suggestion would be to require the term "spacefiller" be used in the descriptions when they are exactly that. Then potential buyers you can add "-spacefiller" to the searches if they don't want to see them. Likewise, those seeking them out can find their cheap copies easily that way, too. Guidance can be posted as to what would, at a minimum, constitute a "spacefiller", such as any tears, thins, pulled perfs, yadda yadda yadda. Either that, or maybe Mark can add a category that can be queried by, including options like "No known faults"; "minor faults", and "spacefiller" or some other agreeable set of not-too-complicated categories. Guidance can be provided as to what constitutes each type of category, perhaps with pictures.I think if I seller is responsible to note any faults, they should be in the position to classify their items without too much difficulty.

Just some musings...

Gina Brewer

I really don't understand the problem here. If there is no demand for the products a store is selling it will eventually have to make changes or go out of business. Based on the sales I've had and the excitement of the "soaring sales" thread, seems to me that the site is doing great. I wish everyone great success and I believe we should leave it in the customers hands on who should be on the site. If there is no market for your product on this site you will have no customers and will be forced to leave the site or face losing their store. I believe the customers not the sellers should be the ones to choose who will succeed and who should vacate the site. I can't think of anything else l have to say on this subject. I look forward to visiting your stores. Thanks for letting me share my opinions.

Henry Brooks

"And chances of finding a variety or worthwhile cancel are virtually nil. You can bet that the seller, that has invested the time to scan and list hundreds and thousands of the same thing, has made darn sure there is nothing to be found."

You are absolutely, totally incorrect - none of those things jump out at you, they require knowledge and work to identify, I won't try to explain it to you because apparently you won't listen.. That said, both of these sellers were on Bidstart and I don't recall anyone ever complaining about them on the very active discussion boards we had there for many years. Why is this suddenly a problem - did you have a problem on Bidstart?

John Coles

Shit like that, won't even rate as a space filler.

Henry Brooks

Jerry I agree with you 100% - we are being shepherded into considering more and more control of our lives as "normal". It is not, freedom is normal, or at least it used to be.

"I also have never ever heard of Ebay pulling a stamp because of quality. As far as i know these stamps can be listed on Ebay at any price as long as they are pictured and described correctly. Am i wrong on this?"

You are not wrong. Ebay dissolved the stamp discussion board because they were discussing listings in which the stamps had been altered and repaired or outright forgeries. It still exists somewhere and if I were going to buy an expensive stamp on Ebay I would run it by the group. But Ebay chose to ignore the experts an allowed the selling of altered, repaired and spurious issues to continue because it's all about money to them (and avoiding liability).

Henry Brooks

I have no idea where you are getting that figure from. If I sort US only by lowest price first I am still under $1.00 at page 8000 (which at 96 per page is 768,000 stamps). There are a total of 1.198,000 US stamps on Hipstart and if 768,000 plus of them are under $1.00 it means that almost 2/3rds of the stamps listed on Hipstamp are under $1.00 if foreign stamps are similarly priced.

Mark Schwing

Kurt, also well stated. I have a few "space fillers" in my collection, taking the space of a stamp that would cost a years wages. And if I didn't want to look at the "junk" I'd just use the price filter.

Brent McClintock

Looks like my friend Hamish has been getting stuck into the stamps again. I forbade him to nibble my postcard offerings. I'm very sorry for his destructive ways. If you see him, turn him in will ya? We've gotta get him off the perfs!

Kurt Lange

But let's not forget to get beyond the buying and selling of stamps remember the reason we all originally got into this hobby which is simply the pure joy of collecting in the first place. It seems like the entire website is stronger if it's built around the core value of the fun and excitement of stamp collecting not just the dollars and cents.

George DeKornfeld

...Creased, Ripped And Poor, or 'CRAP.'

Henry Brooks

Let me ask you a couple of questions - do you collect cancels (fancy, town, date) ? How about color varieties? Perhaps you look for flyspecks (cracked plates, die varieties, etc.)? Once in awhile I sit down and go through these dealers "abusive" stock looking for items of interest. I usually pick up a hundred or two that I am interested in viewing up close and personal. I am usually rewarded with finding several things for my collection and enough for resale (internet. private treaty or dealers specializing in the unusual) to pay for my purchase a few times over (sometimes it only takes one of those 1c stamps to make it worthwhile). .
These gentlemen have been around for a long time - why would you want to tell them what they can and cannot list? Do you want someone to decide what you are allowed to list for you?
Easy enough to avoid - you can change the sort order, you can only allow 1 stamp per dealer, there are a lot of filters you can use. If you want to stick to looking at only pristine stock there are several dealers on here who cater to high end buyers - just browse their stores. But hold onto your wallet- you pay for quality - you won't find stamps at bargain prices.

Michael Generali

Some people in this thread have commented that they are here to sell stamps in order to pay bills and put "food on the table" for their family. If that were truly the case, wouldn't it be a more judicious use of time to be listing items to sell rather than rummaging around other sellers' stores and spending time here commenting about what was found in those other sellers' stores? Calling attention to other sellers (free advertising for them) just results in people looking at the other sellers' stores, not yours.

Michael Generali

@Paul "My guess is very few sellers have a listed inventory of more than 6475"

There are only about 15% of the 673 stores that have 5,000 or more listings

andrew Hellenschmidt

No reason to pick on Paul because others are jealous of his top spot. He has a 200k+ listing lead on everyone. I have come to the conclusion the more the merrier as a collector will buy what they think as good material. I had the pleasure to peruse his store the other day and buy several nice stamps.

John Coles

Yes, your very wrong on this Carol

Ebay has pulled hundreds and hundreds of stamps from their site. I had two stamps pulled because they said they had faults. I called them and sent large large scans to them and faults turned out to be Dark Cancel Marks. They were relisted and sold on eBay for over 100.00 each. eBay sent me an email with sorry for our mistake and didn't charge me the sales fees.

eBay also had a contract with APS to monitor the listings and remove the ones they felt were not up to the standards of APS and eBay.

Henry Brooks

John - I admit that I haven't done much on Ebay since John Donahoe and his "disruptive innovation" took over back in 2008. I was doing a few hundred dollars a month part time mainly in lots but it just got too crazy. I put stuff on once in awhile but when I look at some of the stamps on Ebay I just shake my head. And as late as last year there were constant complaints on other boards about some of the major sellers material so maybe this is a new thing and Ebay has decided to clean up it's act in their usual bull in the China shop methodology.

Jerry - I was talking about the old Ebay discussion group that was disbanded probably ten or fifteen years ago. It consisted of some pretty decent people - Richard Frajola (now Philamercury), Matt Liebson (chairman of the APS Membership Committee) and a lot of other very knowledgeable individuals. Are you talking about a member of that group or are you talking about Stampboards (which is located in Australia and run by Glen Stephens) where I have been the recipient of misinformation before. .There was also another group formed in the US after the old group was disbanded by Ebay about which I know little except that I have heard them referred to...

Rod Tilyard

Jerry nailed it! F = Faulty, VF = Very Faulty.

Wayne Buza

I've often wondered how bad a stamp has to be to be Very Good.

Jerry Burkhart

I still have items on the delcampe server from 10 years ago. I assume every thing i ever listed is still on the Delcampe server. the Lie about server space being the reason the delcampe site was slow was just that a complete Lie and anyone that has built a Website with a Data base knows this is a fact. There are ways to build a site that does pre caches off your computer that greatly speeds up a site easily by 20x faster.

server resources are one thing but then there is data base storage capacity. they really are two different things. Delcampe blamed to 75 million? listings on those selling cheap stamps. My guess as you stated.. it was all a scam to get more fees. The band width stays the same as viewers can only view one page at a time ..generally :-) Data Storage is so cheap that it is almost free. Horrible programming and a scam to collect more fees?

Fees- Delcampe was charging a gold membership fee. I assume most paid it that were selling. I will refrain from calling SEB and the morons that worked for him names here but I will say that their is a lot of rotten cheese in Belgium

Gina Brewer

I agree with you Doug. I use a legend listing my abbreviations and use SF-space filler in my title line. I also list the reason(s). Thin, repair, pin holes, etc. My daughter collects topical stamps and I will pick up a stamp for her in a second if it has the right image. With the decline of stamp shows, where everyone has a selection of free stamps for the kids, I think cheap stamps even with faults help fill this vacuum that has been created. I usually find stamps for my own collection and end up spending way more than I planned to. It's all good.