superb centering

Ron Lenke · October 2017

As a collector, I used to look for nicely centered copies merely because they looked better aesthetically, and at that time they didn't command much premium if any. Nowadays grading plays a significant role and standards are defined...at least when getting a cert.
My question to you fellow collectors is "what constitutes a SUPERB grade in your minds" as I see some items here using that term in the listing and yet ....well, here's an example of a very nice stamp with 3 generous borders but visually a bit off center vertically. Am I being too critical in my analysis of holding off agreeing with a superb designation?
hipstamp 406

Dan Shilcrat · October 2017

Hi Ron, It is my belief that Professional Grading Services use a very exacting measuring tool (in the Metric system) to measure all four margin. All four must be identical in size to earn the designation of 'Superb'. The term 'Jumbo' is used for descriptive purposes only. A Superb stamp need not have jumbo margins. Again this is the advise I was given by P.S.E. Best, Dan

Ron Carmichael · October 2017

I'd be struggling to call that even VF..... but I'm old school (VF is as high as I go).........before the days of "gem", "superb", "jumbo" etc

Ron Lenke · October 2017

Thanks Dan. Under such professional scrutiny it would seem this would not qualify. In listing our stamps here, we have an implied obligation to accurately represent our offering regarding identification (i.e. scott number-entailing correct perf measurements, paper, watermarks, gum, etc) and usage whether cancelled, mint, hinged, cto, etc, along with other noted conditions/defects. One area left open to a degree of subjectivity is centering. Although Scott does put forth a general guideline regarding grading, ultimately there appears to be leeway in the interpretation (lacking expertization). My query is meant to hear from others as to whether labeling a stamp by highest designation, superb, sans cert, is warranted in a listing rather than, say in this case, "highly attractive with generous margins" or some such description reflecting a more obvious personal opinion. I'm probably being too critical here as ultimately any potential buyer will decide for themselves via a posted picture. But back to my original point. Would you like to see any restraint in the admittedly soft area of grading in listings ...at least involving declarations of philatelically-defined terms, particularly "superb"?

Ron Lenke · October 2017

To the other Ron here....maybe two Rons DO make a right ;-)

Dennis Jorgensen · October 2017

I hope that I am fairly conservative in my centering descriptions and in my over 50 years in this wacky business I have rarely used superb to describe a stamp. In listings here there is a scan or photograph of the stamp so the potential buyer can see for him/her/it self what the centering is and whether or not they are interested in buying it. Its not like the old days when most descriptions of what was offered in a print list were just letters and numbers and no scans. To put out a print offering involved making a metal plate from a photo of the stamps, and a camera mounted on a looooong bed with some sort of arc lamps - and it weren't cheap. Mr Gore had not invented the internet in those days so it was print lists or nothing.

Ron Carmichael · October 2017

Dennis raises a good point, in the online world, I generally don't say G, VG, F, VF because I have expandable pictures and the buyer can decide for themselves. In my printed on paper lists, the highest I go is VF, I suppose maybe if I'm just amazed at the centring I'd say VF+.

https://www.hipstamp.com/store/roncarmichaelstamps

Dan Shilcrat · October 2017

My Vote goes for strong restraint in using the word "Superb'. It is a term that Grading Services use. There is a precise definition based on precise grading criteria. I would never be so presumptuous to use it in my Imprecise verbiage trying to paint a word picture of my stamp for sale. Better a simple accurate description of the Gum, perfs & centering,color and other possible appropriate aspects. I am always pleased when I get Feedback saying 'Item as Described' Conservative is good. Dan

michael j park · October 2017

I have never used superb & rarely fine,I have seen dealers describing fine which are not even good,especially cancels.A good scan is all anyone needs to form there own grading.

John John H. Talman · October 2017

I think listings on Hip Stamps become a joke at times. Not Hip Stamps entire fault. Took a look at Canada #335 mint today and found one #335 mint listed at 10c and one listed at $25. I must say I considered that the 10c stamp looked better than the $25. stamp but this is just my humble opinion. Of course one appears grossly overpriced to me but at the same time 10c is too cheap as a retail price for such an excellent example of #335 mint NH. I guess there are advantages to having the lowest price on Hip Stamps but in years gone by the wholesale price used to be higher than the retail price. Are sellers really in a race to the bottom and are collectors (buyers) intelligent enough to take advantage of this?

Michael Generali · October 2017

You also have to understand and know the subject matter. The Washington-Franklins are known for being notoriously off-center. Examples with massive margins that are well-centered most certainly are around, but caution must come into play for such a stamp being faked by fraudulently perforating the imperf variety. In this case, the imperf stamp is Scott #409. Fortunately, Scott #406 is not that valuable a stamp, so that may mitigate somewhat the suspicion of fake perforations. Still, one should be careful with 2 cent Washingtons.

Is it worth paying the money for a certificate for a stamp that catalogs less than $10.00 (hinged)? That is up to the buyer.

andrew Hellenschmidt · October 2017

I find some descriptions and prices on the site are ludicrous. It isn't rocket science to accurately describe a stamp yet some dealers think every offer they have is superb. Another guy uses the term bargain in his store name, yet his prices are out of this world. One of my pet peeves is not having an image of the back of a better more expensive stamp. Another one is calling a mint no gum stamp VF.

Thomas Keesling · October 2017

I agree that nicely centered stamps are the way to go, but my financial means when I was collecting didn't allow me to focus on that luxury.

I limit my stamp sale titles and descriptions to less subjective information plus identification of condition issues. I feel my time is better spent describing condition issues, and prefer to let prospective buyers decide for themselves if my sale price matches their impression of the stamp's grade and overall condition.

George DeKornfeld · October 2017

"Another one is calling a mint no gum stamp VF."
My understanding is (from reading the Scott catalogues) that this designation refers strictly to the centering whereas 'no gum' would come under the heading of condition.

John John H. Talman · October 2017

Scott has a bit more to their definition of VF. For instance on VF used they mention "will have light or otherwise neat cancellations." They also have a comment from Amos Media in four lines stating among other things "price you pay or obtain for a stamp will be determined by individual agreement at time of transaction." Two pages of photos of stamps show their idea of centering. When talking VF a seller should of course mention condition and not just give a stamp a listing of VF no matter what its condition as seen in some descriptions in HS..

Ron Carmichael · October 2017

Boy I guess I am really old school..... I'll confess that I haven't read the definitions for a long time, but to me:

VF =

Centring clear and nearly equal all the way around
Totally sound "paper" no pulled perforations, thins, creases, dings
If cancelled, a clear, non obstructive cancel
If mint, no gum defects of any kind, aside from hinging if MH

This might explain why I see "faulty" stamps with VF centring acquiring higher than I think they should prices when they are being auctioned.....

andrew Hellenschmidt · October 2017

Ron, old school is the way to go. A mint no gum stamp perfectly centered can be a nice stamp but not VF or Superb as it lacks gum and should sell for much less than the mint price.
Check out this example no way is this stamp VF. An imperf stamp which is cut/trimmed is damaged imo. Many seem to like to false advertise...
https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/newfoundland-3-mint-f-vf-no-gum-creased-cat475/16439948

Ron Carmichael · October 2017

Yep, it even has a crease.... really stuff like this should be pictured front and back......

This is what I do for my singles/sets, I only mention the gum condition:
https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/germany-ddr-10n36-mnh-with-a-dramatic-perforation-error-check-pictures/16406056
(this one is off centre a bit! ;-) )

Of course picturing front and back takes more time, which likely doesn't make sense for 15c items, but certainly I think it does for higher value material (my general rule is I don't list anything below $9.99)

Robert Maddox · October 2017

I think that George has it exactly right.

Paul Molloy · October 2017

Someone needs to design and make two sided scanners.

superb centering

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