I don't know about wrong, but what's irksome to me, assuming the stamp is identified correct, is that he is justifying the grade of the stamp with an egrade "certificate" and calling out a PSE price. I wasn't aware PSE assigned value. Then in the listing he says "We will only honer certificates from aps,pe,and pse"; but egrade is good enough to justify the condition to him. To each their own, I guess. How do you get to gem condition with clearly uneven margins? Isn't that part of the criteria?
"No faults seen"!!!!???? This stamp badly needs to see a good dentist to get multiple teeth replaced. E-Certs are good for using as drool rags during the dental procedure, that's it. Oh, and $2000 for a (maybe) $3 cover. This one stinks all the way around.
And, though his listing declares it is certified 100 Sup, the actual grade shown on his ersatz certificate tells a different story. F-VF 78 with an "Adjusted" grade of Gem 100.
What really irks me beyond the obvious failings of this "remarkable gem" is the seller's announcing that he is an APS member, something I find difficult to believe (given the listing). I think just for sh*ts & giggles I'm going to share the listing with APS to see if he is indeed an APS member, and if he is, to see if he's broken any rules of membership with this misguided offering.
Ted, I noticed the same thing on the centering, how do they extrapolate the finding to the "100" declaration? The cover itself is unremarkable , but neat and un creased. Unless there is something historically significant inside the envelope , this is SO overpriced as to be obviously laughable. Just looking at the stamp itself the perfs are scraggly, tired and uneven, as we expect on average specimen of this age. Realistic cover price, estimate at $10 on a good day.
Plus he is in violation of the HS listing terms and conditions, "E-graded stamps should not be listed within the Graded stamp category.". He has this listed in the category of Graded.
Check their feedback; as a buyer 4187, as a seller 36. And there is no possible circumstance that might convince me to spend $126 on a US 1c green Statue of Liberty Scott 899. No.
But hey, if you just gotta spend your money, well, you go on down there, Colonel Custer.
Well, there is that issue. But the E Grading thing is my focus. All the E Grading software does is mathematically calculate the centering of an image of the item (really, I suppose any image). Example...E Graded Gem 100...nice but so what?
And then there is the HipStamp Terms and Conditions for sellers.
-Numerical Grades (Stamps), and prices based on Numerical Grades (such as SMQ Values), can only be displayed if the item comes with a Graded Certificate from the PSE, PFC or APS. -E-graded stamps should not be listed within the Graded stamp category
Greg what your saying is true, but the seller doesn't have a choice if they describe a grade in the title of the listing, even on those listings without an E-graded certificate. While the terms and conditions may prohibit it, the system doesn't "follow the rules" and automatically includes these listings along with graded stamps from recognized sources. The buyer can eliminate those unwanted listings by choosing certificate only. Anyone claiming an E-graded certificate as a valid certificate would be in violation of the terms and conditions and should be reported.
You know, I don't really mean to single out this seller. The reason I brought this out is more to discuss the merits of or lack thereof of using the E Grading software (solely) as a way to enhance perceived value of an offered item. The software used simply mathematically calculates the degree of centering of an image, in this case, a stamp and assigns a numerical "grade" to that calculated centering. Centering is only one factor that is used to evaluate the value of a stamp. There are many other factors (and more important ones in my opinion) that can be used to determine value. Scarcity, color quality, image sharpness, perforation condition are just a few. In addition, most stamp catalogs discuss and demonstrate examples of how centering should be described i.e., Poor, Fine, Very Fine, Extra Fine, Supurb, etc. Is this not enough to use these "industry standards" which have been in place for literally decades? Further, there is a category to use when listing an item that addresses centering.
While I am sure there is exists a number of folks out there who will "hang their hat" on the E Grade being a descriptor of quality which is a direct indicator of value, I think there is a potential for customers to end up spending much more money than they might need to especially on very common E Graded stamps. As an example, a seller offers a very common US Scott 907 that is E Graded "Gem 100" for well over $100. Another seller offers the same Scott number with centering validly described by definition, and other conditions essentially the same, as Supurb for $5.00. Which may be considered by a knowledgeable buyer as the more credible and valid value for the item? Does a half of a millimeter mathematical difference in centering connotate an excessive perceived value, all other factors being equal? Now certainly, a seller can ask whatever price he or she wants to ask but this issue kind of goes back to my old pet peeve. The difference between the term "seller" and "dealer" with the seller mainly interested in making money and the dealer mainly interested in serving the customer properly.
And John, I really don't have a problem with the E Grader in that it does serve a purpose in describing centering. It is just one tool to use in the dealer's toolkit. I've thought of using it myself but don't but if I did, I certainly wouldn't ever think of using the E Grade in any descriptions of my listed items. Long standing standards of describing centering should be sufficient in any description and if a seller/dealer chooses to mention an E Grade, so be it but it shouldn't be the driving factor in the description of the item. So the seller/dealer actually does have a choice in how they describe their items.
Not that I'm defending this because yeah, that seller needs to be subjugated, Hip also has a stupid definition "Numerical Grades... PSE, PFC or APS". APS (which is actually APEX the expertizing arm of the society) does not offer graded certs. So listing it is acknowledgment that Hipstamp doesn't understand it's own policy. And to me, it also seems arbitrary that they wouldn't accept PSAG grading either. They are a highly reputable (and in my experience far more consistent) certifier than PSE, and much quicker than the PF.
There is most definitely a big difference between grading and authentication/expertization. The two can be combined of course on a cert but two completely different things IMO.
Greg. I agree with you about these e-graded centering programs. They might have their place, but to connect them with common stamps and arbitrary prices is just not right. I remember that you were not writing about this seller in particular, but I went through some of his entries and I found two issues especially that lead me to challenge his ethics and his experience.
I found some common stamps graded as "84" selling for prices as low as $14. I saw the stamps and I think a score of 84 would not be any better than "very fine," and there is absolutely no reason for it to have a premium. But the inexperienced collector who might be gunshy of $126, might find $14 well within his capability.
Something else I found were pre-1940s era US plate blocks graded with this system. The grading line ran around the outside of all four stamps, and it was obvious that all four stamps individually were out of center. Yet they have grades of 94, 92, whatever. If that makes sense, i need to learn how.
An optimistic observation would be "How stupid does he think we are?" The sad truth is that eventually someone that stupid will find him. Well. Thanks for reading...
Phil, interesting observations. Didn't really drill down to that level of detail because I was looking at the over-arching issue of the E Grading software. But I do agree with you on both of your points.
As I said before and as Phil noted, there is a place for this kind of software for a dealer, but it's simply nothing more than another tool to use like a perf gauge and a watermark tray among other things. As an example, occasionally...actually rarely... I will use the RetroReveal website when I am confronted with very difficult cancellations and/or questions of whether a cancellation was precedent or antecedent to a surcharged issue possibly indicating a forged cancel on an otherwise unused stamp. And even that doesn't always tell the story conclusively. These tools, in my opinion, should be used by a reputable and credible dealer to determine the proper objective identification of a given item and then the subjective kicks in. Centering, color, print quality, perf condition, etc. That kind of thing.
EzGrader is garbage in my view. Total waste of money, and can be manipulated to "say anything". It should not only not be used as justification to sell stamps, it should just never be used full stop.
Hi Luree... hmm, as a reference copy I would buy this, but not at what the seller is asking for. While the A Grill is "grilled all over" there are at least a few columns that run the entire length of this copy, and a few that run the width. What I would do with this, as a seller, would be to "repair" this with something like a 65 that is close to the same shade, by placing it behind the stamp, and aligning the designs. But then, maybe $75-$100 at most.
Comments
https://www.gradingmatters.com/us.html
And, though his listing declares it is certified 100 Sup, the actual grade shown on his ersatz certificate tells a different story. F-VF 78 with an "Adjusted" grade of Gem 100.
Excuse me?
How about this one?
https://www.hipstamp.com/store/us-world-wide-graded-stamps
But hey, if you just gotta spend your money, well, you go on down there, Colonel Custer.
And then there is the HipStamp Terms and Conditions for sellers.
-Numerical Grades (Stamps), and prices based on Numerical Grades (such as SMQ Values), can only be displayed if the item comes with a Graded Certificate from the PSE, PFC or APS.
-E-graded stamps should not be listed within the Graded stamp category
Is this not enough to use these "industry standards" which have been in place for literally decades? Further, there is a category to use when listing an item that addresses centering.
While I am sure there is exists a number of folks out there who will "hang their hat" on the E Grade being a descriptor of quality which is a direct indicator of value, I think there is a potential for customers to end up spending much more money than they might need to especially on very common E Graded stamps. As an example, a seller offers a very common US Scott 907 that is E Graded "Gem 100" for well over $100. Another seller offers the same Scott number with centering validly described by definition, and other conditions essentially the same, as Supurb for $5.00. Which may be considered by a knowledgeable buyer as the more credible and valid value for the item? Does a half of a millimeter mathematical difference in centering connotate an excessive perceived value, all other factors being equal? Now certainly, a seller can ask whatever price he or she wants to ask but this issue kind of goes back to my old pet peeve. The difference between the term "seller" and "dealer" with the seller mainly interested in making money and the dealer mainly interested in serving the customer properly.
And John, I really don't have a problem with the E Grader in that it does serve a purpose in describing centering. It is just one tool to use in the dealer's toolkit. I've thought of using it myself but don't but if I did, I certainly wouldn't ever think of using the E Grade in any descriptions of my listed items. Long standing standards of describing centering should be sufficient in any description and if a seller/dealer chooses to mention an E Grade, so be it but it shouldn't be the driving factor in the description of the item. So the seller/dealer actually does have a choice in how they describe their items.
Anyway......
And to me, it also seems arbitrary that they wouldn't accept PSAG grading either. They are a highly reputable (and in my experience far more consistent) certifier than PSE, and much quicker than the PF.
I found some common stamps graded as "84" selling for prices as low as $14. I saw the stamps and I think a score of 84 would not be any better than "very fine," and there is absolutely no reason for it to have a premium. But the inexperienced collector who might be gunshy of $126, might find $14 well within his capability.
Something else I found were pre-1940s era US plate blocks graded with this system. The grading line ran around the outside of all four stamps, and it was obvious that all four stamps individually were out of center. Yet they have grades of 94, 92, whatever. If that makes sense, i need to learn how.
An optimistic observation would be "How stupid does he think we are?" The sad truth is that eventually someone that stupid will find him. Well. Thanks for reading...
As I said before and as Phil noted, there is a place for this kind of software for a dealer, but it's simply nothing more than another tool to use like a perf gauge and a watermark tray among other things. As an example, occasionally...actually rarely... I will use the RetroReveal website when I am confronted with very difficult cancellations and/or questions of whether a cancellation was precedent or antecedent to a surcharged issue possibly indicating a forged cancel on an otherwise unused stamp. And even that doesn't always tell the story conclusively. These tools, in my opinion, should be used by a reputable and credible dealer to determine the proper objective identification of a given item and then the subjective kicks in. Centering, color, print quality, perf condition, etc. That kind of thing.
I agree.
https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/us79-rose-a-grill-space-filler-cat140000-guaranteed-genuine/25514487