Kelleher auctioning a few of their client's stamps here instead of the Stamp Auction Network

Interesting that Kelleher is auctioning some stamps here. I'm supposing it's a test drive to see how things go. The 20% buyers premium shown in light grey with very small text might lead to some issues for those not paying full attention :)

One of several listed:
https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/united-states-819-mint-nh-superb-with-pse-encapsulated-cert-graded-sup-98/49448202
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Comments

  • 32 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • edited November 2022 2 LikesVote Down
    Actually, this infuriates me. Looking at the 819, it's supposedly in a PSE case, graded at 98 SUP. Go to PSE SMQ and it values a graded 98 stamp at $85. Then Kelleher have massively over inflated the value (a violation of site policy), stating it at $100 - $150, the listing is at "Was at $150" now $60, so shows a 60% "discount", (another violation), Hip are allowing a 20% "Buyers Premium" to the stamp, making the $60 stamp a $72 stamp as well...
    This stinks. Please join me in writing to Hipstamp in protest to this slap in the face to all the dealers who have been hear for years, none of which can charge a "buyers premium", nor are we (and thankfully so) allowed to charge buyers premiums even when we have certs.

    Two additional violations that ALL of their listings have is that, they show only a front stamp image, and there is no listing of the cert. What, just because someone has a seller name of Kelleher, we're supposed to just accept that as credible, particularly when there they have a 5 feedback?

    @Mark Rosenberg Please respond IN THIS FORM to this. How are you justifying this? These listings are all ordinary, modern stamps. Is this their new dumping ground? I love that "Hipvalue" shows the value for a 819 at $1.

  • edited November 2022 0 LikesVote Down
    No. No, unh-uh. No. In real auctions, buyer premiums are essentially the house's charge for selling high end material from other folks. There could also be a 5% or 10% sellers' premium. Houses which handle less expensive material generally charge all fees to the seller and have no buyer's premium. This is not a high end auction, and I doubt they are selling these for other other people.
  • Something smells really bad here...and I know bad smells. Far be it for me to allege something I know not the details whereof but there seems to potentially be something odd going on lately. Kelleher Online Sales (KOS) has 25 listings currently, all are PSE certed, graded, and encapsulated items. KOS currently has 5 feedbacks from buyers. Guess who they are?

    Kelleher-Rosenberg

    HS T&Cs state that...Buyer's premiums and/or any other arbitrary percentages or fixed/variable fees are prohibited, unless otherwise exempted by Hip eCommerce via written consent.

    Does this means all I have to do is write to HS and get a written approval to charge a "buyers premium" on anything I want to list? What is the basis for this approval? Who would qualify for approval and why?

    As I said...something smells fishy.
  • Michael Dodd's COVID infected head is going to explode when he sees this.
  • This should be an interesting topic for the upcoming Rene Bravo forum.
  • Something tells me this ain't gonna go no where..
  • 10-4...double negative notwithstanding. LOL! Still stinks though.
  • edited November 2022 3 LikesVote Down
    @Greg Doll I'd rather the Rene Bravo session not be a gripe session, particularly since we're all "meeting" for the first time... lets keep it light, friendly, "get ta' know ya" that it was billed as. It's a time to celebrate.

    I have written every Hipstamp and HipEcommerce executive I have a contact for and lodged serious complaint against this. Greg, interesting I didn't think to click on the 5 feedback to see where that is, but now I feel @Mark Rosenberg owes this community an explanation.

    If this is some kind of "test" similar to the APS selling on the platform, that wasn't meant to be "seen", then fine, but the buyers premium especially at 20% is a fine print that is just unreasonable. I don't see why anyone would buy any of the listings currently posted, now I see who bought them.
  • I won't be buying any of these, although they are generally very handsome stamps. Just not my cuppa. The surcharge, and let's call it what it is, a surcharge, is nothing but pretentious buggery.
  • Not to mention they are encased, which was the WORST idea ever in philatelic display. And you have to send them to PSE, pay a FEE to get them out.
  • I have a few extra days here in Sydney and there is this little bridge I am trying to sell any offers. I can provide a certificate if you wish................... :-)


  • Anzac Bridge, or Sydney Harbor Bridge?
  • Scott, I get it. As Forrest Gump once said..."I'm not a bad man!"

    If we had a high res image, running it through RetroReveal could be quite...um...uh...revealing.
  • Forest Gump also said (SH)IT Happens
  • What do you think you would see from an MNH encased stamp from RetroReveal?
  • Ah that's right...encased...nothing to see here. Encasing stamps!!! Who do they think we are...numismatists????
  • I just realized my RetroReveal comment was meant for the other thread. Sorry.
  • Thought so.
    But I ran that 34 through my Photoshop routines and it shows clearly a removed cancel.
  • Either bridge. I will make up another cert :-)
  • So what's that sound? Crickets? No one from Hipstamp has the nerve to justify this in a public forum???
    Figuratively "Look us all in the eye" and tell us that there is a different set of rules for 1200 other sellers because "They have a website that has a 20% buyers premium, and we're just keeping in line with their current policy". (Yes, that's the answer I received from "Support").

    That, as Douglas Adams would say "Is a load of feted dingo's kidneys".
    So if I set up a website and charge a 20% buyers premium, then you'll align to my policies as well?
    And if we over inflate our prices so we can justify 60% discounts, as we do on our website, then we're justified in doing the same here.

    Let me check... Oh yeah, that's right the "Terms and Conditions" tiny print at the bottom of the site isn't working. Guess you're busy making a change to it that justifies this?

    One again, @Mark Rosenberg WE are your 1200 sellers that this site boasts on a regular basis.
    WE have all been told "You can't do this or you will be in violation of the terms & conditions of the site".
    WE would like you to answer these questions.
  • Always make sure you have your towel Dentarthur Dent. Never lose it.
  • I'm usually a fan of banter as you would all know, but WE really need HIP to take this one seriously!
  • I know and I agree. But they won't. As an avowed pessimist, I find it easier to remain skeptical so if something does happen, then it is a pleasant surprise, not another disappointment. I have fought more battles than you know with them both from my own business perspective and from my position as a director of IPDA (along with some of my colleagues on that board). I could detail my/our efforts but it would be a moot point. I will say that the "powers that be" seem to not be very interested in doing it the right way...rather they seem to be doing it their own way, regardless of the decades/centuries of combined experience in this business in its many evolving forms. Just saying to keep your towel close...it may be your only salvation, metaphorically speaking.
  • Greg, I agree, but there is strength in numbers.
    I don't think what we are asking here is unreasonable (a simple explanation, and rationally, how is this business practice ethical? (i.e. this establishes an uneven playing field, and is in itself a discriminatory action if only "Kelleher" qualify for it. This breaks at least regulation of fair business practices, if not constituting collusion and anti-trust.
    I'm not making these points as threats (and I know you're listening), rather as points that should be considered before continuing the silence, in order to avoid any "imperial entanglements".
    Put another way: I'm not letting this go. Explanations are a reasonable ask here.
  • edited November 2022 1 LikesVote Down
    And why, when it has an established SMQ value of $85, are they allowed to claim an estimated value of up to $150?

    (Quote from listing)
    SMQ SUP 98; $85. Scott $1. Estimate $100 - 150.
  • I'm wondering if this is the right site to sell on. This stuff just seems plain wrong!
  • I’m not opposed to their right to sell those things . They’re trying to capitalize on these types of items . Folks who invest in precious metals are not likely to invest in “small paper” unless it’s elegantly encased to look like “something”. We know those are nice XF mint stamps worth far less than they’re listed for . But the exaggerated retail listings does create a very false sense of value . Plus the idea of a consignment auction with a buyer fee would not be something I would support by simply not buying that .
  • @Ted Tyszka exactly. This is the kind of inflated value to discount to make it look like a "great deal" that should be covered by:

    Prices must be realistic, and are not allowed to be excessive. The definition of excessive is at our discretion, but usually only applies to items listed at several times their actual retail value.

    There is the caveat, but I've seen them remove users for the same level of excess in the past. So there clearly is not an equal application of "judiciary outcome".

    I get that it's a big win for the site to have groups like APS and Kelleher selling here. (I am a frequent buyer at Kelleher Auctions), but this platform is different. And allowing arbitrarily one group (one seller even) to have an advantage at the disadvantage of all other sellers is not only a question of fairness, moral integrity and discriminatory, it disadvantages all other sellers.

    I continue to ask for a "Please Explain", I think the selling community deserves an answer from senior leadership on this decision, because we're just asking for justification. We want a fair marketplace, and while not stated as being such in the terms and conditions, to date the behaviors of the site owners have demonstrated that interest in a fair market. This move however, violates the trust of every seller, regardless of the T&C saying "It's our discretion to do this" or not. It does not make it fair, reasonable or just to the other 1200 sellers on the site.

  • I closed my store during the fee increase debacle. A couple of weeks ago I received an email from @Mark Rosenberg asking me if I would be willing to reopen my store if they gave me 2 months free (excluding final value fees). I wrote back telling him I wouldn't at this time because of the numerous missteps, lack of communication, and horrible website "upgrade" roll-out. Now this, just another reason why I won't come back as a seller. Just my 2 cents.
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