While back in Wisconsin, a local proudly boasted he hadn't been bit by a single mosquito .....they all were married. So much for farmer humor, I guess.
Ok folks, question of the week (used to be day but I've gotten considerably better and reserved this one for the important tougher questions)....
This is a Switzerland 332. How best to tell the difference between type 2 and type 1? It states type 1 is 3 lines above the rock, and type 2 has 2.... I suppose the question is.... which rock, and I need a magnifying glass for this one dont I?
These all look to be Type I. The "rock" to look at is the left central area of the image. It mentions the "Type II Two solid lines above Curved rock".
There is a line that is near parallel with the top of the rock, and this one does not count. There must be 3 distinctive lines above the curved rock and the "shoreline". Your scans are a bit blurry (its really much better to do separate images rather than trying to post 3 of the same thing in one).
You can probably see these without magnification by using a scan, but I suggest a 15x loop (there is one that has an LED light built into it, and I find that I like this one, as you don't have to provide another light source, and you can turn it on or off).
I further recommend getting a USB microscope and connect to your PC. These are inexpensive around $60 - $70 for a descent one that will magnify up to around 150x. When you get into more advanced things, the bigger magnification provides a lot of insight.
From what I can see in these images, they are all Type II.
Hi DC, Listen to Scott, he is a proven knowledgeable philatelist!!. I will add.. Type-1 Just above the 20 there are weak traces of diagonal hatching. Type-2 That diagonal hatchwork is missing. I can not tell for sure what you have.. look under a 10X Power loop. Dan
Definitely listening to Scott here Don hahaha! I've been reading the forum on the Chinese/Japanese stamps and Holy cow Scott! You know a lot about stamps! The rock formation on the left is what I suspected, and from what I could see with a magnifying glass, they appeared type 1 to me as well. I even compared with type 2 on here just for a basis of comparison, but may break down and buy a type 2 just to juxtapose it in the collection with the rest of the stamps.
I've been trying to honor the collection by finishing it on here with nicer/unused or rarer versions of the stamps.....its a long expensive process, but will be worth it one day for my kids.
And if the blind ever lead the deaf, we are all doomed! Which is why im learning with some help here from the pros!
So, from learning from you guys and reading, I got somtin....for sure here. Typically inverted crowns are somewhat desired...to what degree im not too sure. I found what looks like an Australia scotts # 116 used. Not a particularly valuable stamp. But the back was definitely upside down. Its not in the scotts book that way for pricing, so your thoughts?
Unless it's specified, orientation of the watermark is generally of no consequence. As I've mentioned before (and saying again here when someone 3 years from now comes across this thread), I'm a US specialist, so there what I'm stating here might not align with this issue. However, when you look at US issues, the watermarks are known in virtually any orientation, either forward or reversed. When you think about it, if a page is proportionate on all 4 sides (i.e. is square) then the paper, through handling is bound to get oriented in any which direction. Stacks might even get turned over, and all these fed through the press. When I look at the Franklin-Washington era (where both single ad double-line US watermarks were used), I see them in every orientation, and Scott mentions in the element leading up to them that the balance of orientation doesn't indicate any specific majority, in other words, a pretty even distribution of watermarks.
I don't image this process would be much different on other issues. There is one issue off the top of my head in US where direction of the watermark matters (well, 2) first related to Franklin-Washington's, that if you find the watermark on "coils" this is horizontal, then they are fakes made from booklet panes. The other is the issue of 283 and 283a which are distinguished by the orientation of their watermark. But this is a bit unusual.
Scott, even in their Classic catalog (1840-1940 issues), does not list any watermark orientations for this issue. Stanley Gibbons, however, does. As Michael states above, they have it priced at 0.50 for the watermark inverted and 0.15 for upright watermark. Stanley Gibbons does issue a catalog just for the British Commonwealth and may be a good reference for such issues. Just like Michel is a good reference for all the varieties present in German issues, of which their are loads, other specialized catalogs are available for many countries or areas of the world. It just depends on how deeply you wish to dive into world-wide issues.
While I used to collect world-wide, I still did specialized in a few areas, one of which was Germany. It would amaze you how many more varieties are collected by German collectors compared to what is listed in Scott. Orientation of gum ripples, attached sheet tabs with markings, and the incredible number of printing flaws are all listed and priced. Due to premiums that some of these items are listed at, it pays to know what you may have in front of you.
I was just trying to impart that, it wouldn't be unusual to find watermarks in any direction, or even inverted (as they printed on reverse side of the sheet). If some of the other catalogs track such stuff, ok. I am not getting excited over a difference of 15c versus 50c... The comment was general interest. I am not, nor will I be, a "world wide" expert. But some things apply nearly universally philatelically, and this seemed reasonably so.
Always fascinating. I am at end of China (book 1) and the score card so far, pretty bleak, but I'm keeping my expectations low so I'm not disappointed. I found 27 of the above stamp, and out of that 4 were inverted (so I started questioning the rarity with 4).
Those Bayern stamps so far were my highest list value (and actually the red guy below the questioned stamp is the winner so far), so pretty sad! Hahaha
I am planning a trade in at a large stamp show in September in my area, and im preparing the bags and bags of extras. Before I pass them out for 25c each, I itemized them all out and im at 65 bucks so far (I still have 3 bags of Usa Britain and Italy left).
I found the Switzerland stamp from the question above as well in this process, and wanted to be sure to look through the rest as well before then. I have segregated the inverts and may place them in the actual albums to replace the standard Australian stamp also (make the collection a bit more unique).
Thank you all as always for your amazing expertise and comments. I'll keep the tough ones coming.
-PS Scott, I have at least one penny red in one book so that will get good, and I think you'll dig my 1880s Russian new stamps also, I think...hope...lol
DC, don't get too excited about the Penny Red just yet. Some version of it was the US Scott 65 of the day. And the imperf is more like the US Scott 11 of the day.
Particularly, look at the top corners. Do they have a letter in them, or do they have a rosette design there? (i.e. are there letters in all 4 corners, or just the bottom).
Ha! I've learned to carefully temper my expectations surrounding stamps in general... I know they made 21 billion penny reds, and most aren't worth much, but depends on plate number. I'll upload a pic tonight when I get home.
From what I recall, unfortunately its not in the greatest of shape. The top right corner looked a little mutilated, but I'll get a pic uploaded.
To me...it looks like the tail of a J almost, with the stem of the J mutilated to some extent. The plate number is very small, and im having trouble seeing it.
Additional quick question also. So...to relay from above watermark question, if I found a BRITISH 210 .5p dark green used (.25c stamp) and the watermark is inverted, but book says SIDEWAYS carries a premium, same thing as inverted? Or were they just amazed that someone literally got the sheet in the machine sideways!? Lol
Yes Jeri, that is immensely helpful thank you vm for that. I have now about 20 inverts, and about 3 or 4 with sideways (remember im sorting the trade pile at the moment, not the books as I wanted to get practice before these sections).
I removed the duplicate book version also and each was inverted or sideways already, so kinda interesting....he was collecting inverts or sideways stamps already.
So the Scott's album on certain stamps is Base stamp 25c Sideways 4 bucks
Nothing else.
So in such a read, the other types wouldn't matter? Like for instance I have a regular, an invert, and a sideways of the BRITISH ISSUE mentioned above.
You're welcome. Usually, if it exists, an inverted wmk will be listed, especially in Stanley Gibbons. I would, however, charge more for an inverted than a regular - in your scenario I would probably charge 0.75 - $1.00 based on condition.
I was thinking something similar to that as well based on Scott's prior advice surrounding the inverts (as they are not that rare but more uncommonly different).
That is why I was so confused searching through the Australia section, and now that I've priced about 500 extras, should probably go back through just to be sure. I was finding invert after invert and now know that is why.
So, here's the plan. When I take these books to the stamp dealers , they all seem not too interested in them. That is without looking through them, which I kind of understand based on the volume in the book of common stamps.
However, I think its incredibly upity and irresponsible of them to do so. So, I am accumulating ridiculously expensive high dollar/mint unused stamps and scattering them throughout the books. I'm also going to build it with my inverted and sideways watermark stamps.
Then, if they turn up their nose at my books, it won't affect me at all!
Comments
This is a Switzerland 332. How best to tell the difference between type 2 and type 1? It states type 1 is 3 lines above the rock, and type 2 has 2.... I suppose the question is.... which rock, and I need a magnifying glass for this one dont I?
There is a line that is near parallel with the top of the rock, and this one does not count. There must be 3 distinctive lines above the curved rock and the "shoreline". Your scans are a bit blurry (its really much better to do separate images rather than trying to post 3 of the same thing in one).
You can probably see these without magnification by using a scan, but I suggest a 15x loop (there is one that has an LED light built into it, and I find that I like this one, as you don't have to provide another light source, and you can turn it on or off).
I further recommend getting a USB microscope and connect to your PC. These are inexpensive around $60 - $70 for a descent one that will magnify up to around 150x. When you get into more advanced things, the bigger magnification provides a lot of insight.
From what I can see in these images, they are all Type II.
Listen to Scott, he is a proven knowledgeable philatelist!!. I will add..
Type-1
Just above the 20 there are weak traces of diagonal hatching.
Type-2
That diagonal hatchwork is missing.
I can not tell for sure what you have.. look under a 10X Power loop. Dan
I've been trying to honor the collection by finishing it on here with nicer/unused or rarer versions of the stamps.....its a long expensive process, but will be worth it one day for my kids.
So, from learning from you guys and reading, I got somtin....for sure here. Typically inverted crowns are somewhat desired...to what degree im not too sure. I found what looks like an Australia scotts # 116 used. Not a particularly valuable stamp. But the back was definitely upside down. Its not in the scotts book that way for pricing, so your thoughts?
When you think about it, if a page is proportionate on all 4 sides (i.e. is square) then the paper, through handling is bound to get oriented in any which direction. Stacks might even get turned over, and all these fed through the press. When I look at the Franklin-Washington era (where both single ad double-line US watermarks were used), I see them in every orientation, and Scott mentions in the element leading up to them that the balance of orientation doesn't indicate any specific majority, in other words, a pretty even distribution of watermarks.
I don't image this process would be much different on other issues.
There is one issue off the top of my head in US where direction of the watermark matters (well, 2) first related to Franklin-Washington's, that if you find the watermark on "coils" this is horizontal, then they are fakes made from booklet panes. The other is the issue of 283 and 283a which are distinguished by the orientation of their watermark. But this is a bit unusual.
While I used to collect world-wide, I still did specialized in a few areas, one of which was Germany. It would amaze you how many more varieties are collected by German collectors compared to what is listed in Scott. Orientation of gum ripples, attached sheet tabs with markings, and the incredible number of printing flaws are all listed and priced. Due to premiums that some of these items are listed at, it pays to know what you may have in front of you.
The comment was general interest. I am not, nor will I be, a "world wide" expert. But some things apply nearly universally philatelically, and this seemed reasonably so.
Those Bayern stamps so far were my highest list value (and actually the red guy below the questioned stamp is the winner so far), so pretty sad! Hahaha
I am planning a trade in at a large stamp show in September in my area, and im preparing the bags and bags of extras. Before I pass them out for 25c each, I itemized them all out and im at 65 bucks so far (I still have 3 bags of Usa Britain and Italy left).
I found the Switzerland stamp from the question above as well in this process, and wanted to be sure to look through the rest as well before then. I have segregated the inverts and may place them in the actual albums to replace the standard Australian stamp also (make the collection a bit more unique).
Thank you all as always for your amazing expertise and comments. I'll keep the tough ones coming.
-PS Scott, I have at least one penny red in one book so that will get good, and I think you'll dig my 1880s Russian new stamps also, I think...hope...lol
PS to you, I have three German sections that are all over the place so this might get hairy, not good! Hahaha
Particularly, look at the top corners. Do they have a letter in them, or do they have a rosette design there? (i.e. are there letters in all 4 corners, or just the bottom).
From what I recall, unfortunately its not in the greatest of shape. The top right corner looked a little mutilated, but I'll get a pic uploaded.
Additional quick question also. So...to relay from above watermark question, if I found a BRITISH 210 .5p dark green used (.25c stamp) and the watermark is inverted, but book says SIDEWAYS carries a premium, same thing as inverted? Or were they just amazed that someone literally got the sheet in the machine sideways!? Lol
I removed the duplicate book version also and each was inverted or sideways already, so kinda interesting....he was collecting inverts or sideways stamps already.
So the Scott's album on certain stamps is
Base stamp 25c
Sideways 4 bucks
Nothing else.
So in such a read, the other types wouldn't matter? Like for instance I have a regular, an invert, and a sideways of the BRITISH ISSUE mentioned above.
So regular .25c
Sideways 4 bucks
Invert .25c?
That is why I was so confused searching through the Australia section, and now that I've priced about 500 extras, should probably go back through just to be sure. I was finding invert after invert and now know that is why.
However, I think its incredibly upity and irresponsible of them to do so. So, I am accumulating ridiculously expensive high dollar/mint unused stamps and scattering them throughout the books. I'm also going to build it with my inverted and sideways watermark stamps.
Then, if they turn up their nose at my books, it won't affect me at all!