I got a dispute in PayPal, first time in 10+ years. I asked buyer would that be ok if I refund the item (he bought 2 items) he didn't like, 2 days later, PayPal gave buyer full refund and charged me US$20 for charge back fee, just letting me know they close this case in buyer's favor. I lost transaction amount $8+, charge back fee and stamps. Sounds like if buyer opens a dispute, we had better give them a full refund asap, if not you will pay extra $20. Tried to make a few bucks profit, finally lost $28+ plus stamps. Need to work harder in real life to get back my loss.
Has someone had similar situation ? What did you do ?
I'm not sure how much interest local authorities have in things like this in today's world. Back in the simpler days of the 50's and 60's local police would talk to individuals about unacceptable behavior and what the consequences might be if they continued. Such off the record conversations usually worked.
In todays society everyone knows their "rights", police have body cams making off the record conversations impossible, every interaction is captured on someone's cell phone, and there is little respect for law enforcement in general.
I'm glad I grew up when I did and I'm glad I'm probably not going to be around in another 20 years - I don't think things are going to improve.
Mark, do you know if PayPal would have applied a charge back fee if Chan had immediately refunded the buyer's money when notified? If not, then the practical solution for us sellers on small disputes would be to refund first and question the buyer later, even if we know we are have done nothing wrong. If would be better to loose $8 than $28.
There is difference between a Paypal dispute and a charge back. A Paypal dispute is when the buyers goes into Paypal and files a dispute. A Charge back starts with the credit card company who issued the card with the buyer.
Here is some more info
In order to protect its customers against the risks associated with doing online business, PayPal complies with the decisions concerning chargebacks made by payment card companies. However, the buyer cannot file a chargeback directly on the PayPal website. They must file the chargeback directly to the issuer of the payment card.
......
PayPal does not make decisions on whether or not chargebacks submitted to issuers of payment cards should be granted. PayPal simply complies with the rules imposed by payment card providers, such as American Express, Master Card, Visa, and others. Any legal entity or individual who accepts, issues, or processes payment cards is bound by those rules.
Michael, this is confusing to me. If PayPal is bound to follow credit card rules requiring a charge back fee, then why did they bother sending a dispute notification and request for my side of the story, if they already intended to charge me regardless of my response?
We have taken appropriate action with regards to the buyer on our end, as well as followed up in detail with our PayPal representative on the applicable transactions. I would recommend that you contact PayPal regarding any chargeback you incurred and ask that it be reversed. We have had a few sellers in question indicate that PayPal issued them a refund as a "courtesy" as the issue was being investigated.
If we receive additional information from our PayPal representative on this issue, I will post the information here.
You have 2 parts to this with a charge back. You still have the dispute with the buyer on the material. The first issue is you can still dispute the part of the claims that the buyer made on the order and win on that part in which if you win you get the money back for the order. The check back fees are a second issue those you are charged because those are bank fees which is covered under law in which Paypal must abide by those laws.
They did NOT intend to charge you for the rest of the refund. That was a choice that you made to refund on that part of it.
If I understand you correctly, when a dispute is filed when payment has been made using a credit card, you will automatically be charged $20.00. If that is the case, the law is really stacked against the small businessman and in favor of PayPal and the credit card companies. THEY made the choice to refund the disputed charges. I didn't in this case. Fortunately no money has been deducted from my account as of today, only notice that it would be deducted.
"Following Michael's suggestion, I went to PayPal today and got an (almost) immediate refund by going into their online chat. Here's a partial recount of the exchange . . . "
Well done, Doug . . and you provided very clear language in your chat (which I often at fail at when trying to type quickly so as not to keep the guy on the other end waiting too long!)
Some sellers called Paypal and got an immediate refund by going into their online chat.
So, I sent Paypal this link before I called PayPal last night, no luck. Then I called again this afternoon, still no luck. One lady told me to wait a few days, another lady told me to wait 75 days started from Sept 14 ! They need to pass information to chargeback center and investigate, then maybe deal with credit card company, plus doesn't mean that you would get refund $20 for chargeback fee. And asked me to prove that I did send items to buyer, what was the tracking number. Geez, using Canada Post, I am selling stamps for 10+ years, no buyer would pay extra money for a tracking number. Of course, I have no 'courtesy' refund.
I wonder how the other sellers are so lucky, can get money back instantly ! Did you guys call a special phone number ?
PayPal is going to need time to investigate Chen's account most likely you have to wait and see. He doesn't seem to respond to emails perhaps a series of senior moments.
Since I was not getting a response from PayPal to an Email, I phoned and my charge was reversed, plus the person opened a "ticket" re M. Chen purchasing habits...
Be CAREFUL!!!!!! I just got hit also for $3.15 plus $20 fee. Just off the phone with PayPAL and got a charge reversal. My transaction was from July 3rd. and this happened this past week.
You said 'Be CAREFUL!!!!!! I just got hit also for $3.15 plus $20 fee. Just off the phone with PayPAL and got a charge reversal.'. Did you get back both $3.15 transaction fee and $20 charge back fee ?
Reminds me of the Russian gang in Montreal mailing checks to sellers in a fake account in Canada, way back in Bidstart or Stampwants. I guess another nail in the box for blocking...
This happens all the time to sellers in the UK on ebay. The paypal chargeback reversal fee in the UK is £14.00 plus the cost of the items. I have only had it once but it's all down to savy buyers knowing how to play the system.
Comments
Need to work harder in real life to get back my loss.
Has someone had similar situation ? What did you do ?
Is eBay has
Is there some where in Hipstamp I may put in this buyer's name on a Alert list for other sellers.
In todays society everyone knows their "rights", police have body cams making off the record conversations impossible, every interaction is captured on someone's cell phone, and there is little respect for law enforcement in general.
I'm glad I grew up when I did and I'm glad I'm probably not going to be around in another 20 years - I don't think things are going to improve.
Here is some more info
In order to protect its customers against the risks associated with doing online business, PayPal complies with the decisions concerning chargebacks made by payment card companies. However, the buyer cannot file a chargeback directly on the PayPal website. They must file the chargeback directly to the issuer of the payment card.
......
PayPal does not make decisions on whether or not chargebacks submitted to issuers of payment cards should be granted. PayPal simply complies with the rules imposed by payment card providers, such as American Express, Master Card, Visa, and others. Any legal entity or individual who accepts, issues, or processes payment cards is bound by those rules.
https://resources.infosecinstitute.com/paypal-chargebacks-and-dispute-resolution/
If we receive additional information from our PayPal representative on this issue, I will post the information here.
They did NOT intend to charge you for the rest of the refund. That was a choice that you made to refund on that part of it.
Here's a partial recount of the exchange . . . "
Well done, Doug . . and you provided very clear language in your chat (which I often at fail at when trying to type quickly so as not to keep the guy on the other end waiting too long!)
Actually those laws were written decades ago and have never been updated to deal with the internet age.
So, I sent Paypal this link before I called PayPal last night, no luck. Then I called again this afternoon, still no luck. One lady told me to wait a few days, another lady told me to wait 75 days started from Sept 14 ! They need to pass information to chargeback center and investigate, then maybe deal with credit card company, plus doesn't mean that you would get refund $20 for chargeback fee. And asked me to prove that I did send items to buyer, what was the tracking number. Geez, using Canada Post, I am selling stamps for 10+ years, no buyer would pay extra money for a tracking number.
Of course, I have no 'courtesy' refund.
I wonder how the other sellers are so lucky, can get money back instantly ! Did you guys call a special phone number ?
re. M Chen in USA.
Steve Eaton/ Liberty Stamp
You said 'Be CAREFUL!!!!!! I just got hit also for $3.15 plus $20 fee. Just off the phone with PayPAL and got a charge reversal.'.
Did you get back both $3.15 transaction fee and $20 charge back fee ?