correct format for Michel # souvenir sheet ("Block") in "item_specifics_02_catalog_number" field

Phil Atarium

I'm trying to fix my HS listings where item specifics information is missing or incorrect.

(I'm using the csv method described in Mark's reply in this thread: https://www.hipstamp.com/forums/discussion/comment/6470/#Comment_6470 )

For the purposes of this question, I'm focusing on "item_specifics_02_catalog_number".

For Trucial States listings, I use the Michel catalog. I know about using the "Mi" prefix directly before the catalog number (no spaces).

But where I'm having a problem is with souvenir sheets. In Michel, souvenir sheet catalog numbers have no relation to the stamps they're related to. Catalog numbers are just "Block 1", "Block 2", etc.

What would be the best way to enter this kind of catalog number into that field? MiBlock1, MiBlock2, etc?

Thanks.


https://www.hipstamp.com/store/the-philatarium

Phil Atarium

There should've been a "?" at the end of the title to this thread.

Unfortunately, I just caught this now, after the 60-minute edit window.

My apologies.

Michael Generali

Phil, that's what I would do, except that I would put a space after the "Mi".

Phil Atarium

Thanks, Michael. I appreciate the input!

I initially did put a space between the "Mi" and the number (a regular catalog number for just plain ol' stamps), but I don't think the system handles it correctly.

And as I was digging around on here, I found this:

"Catalog Number
Except for Scott, prefix by Catalog abbreviation, ie: SG45, Mi710, YT15, etc. Separate multiples with a comma or dash (for ranges)."

From the field definitions page here:

https://www.hipstamp.com/members/tools/bulk-lister/?filter=structure

Phil Atarium

I've also wondered what the appropriate abbreviation is for Zumstein, too, or how to handle multiple catalog numbers. (For Swiss booklets, I have Scott, Michel and Zumstein numbers. I'd love to list all 3 in that field, if that's possible.)

Perhaps when Mark sees this thread he can weigh in with some clarifications.

Michael Generali

Phil, are you using the bulk uploader? I enter manually, and I've used the space without any trouble. If my faulty memory recalls correctly, I think I also spell out the catalog names. I know I do Scott. Maybe that's the difference.

Ted Tyszka

Phil, I've put Scott and SG numbers in my bulk uploader Cat # column, and I use a space after the comma with no trouble. I would think adding a 3rd catalog number would be no problem. As for the prefix, there is no consistency on that other site; the Philatelic Assoc. of NSW specifies Zu; the PTS uses Zum; and Colnect uses Zum. Postbeeld doesn't reference that catalog, and, at any rate would probably use the whole name, as they do with other cats. Sandafayre uses Zum, while Cherrystone uses Zu.
I guess you're on your own.

Phil Atarium

Thanks, Michael. Yes, this is using the bulk lister to clean up (update) my existing listings. It is actually a pretty effective tool for this. I managed to fix a lot of listings where the something had gone wrong in those item specifics fields, like the year or stamp type not being pulled in correctly. (Some of these are legacy listings from the BidStart days.)

And thanks, Ted, for your experience with the multiple catalog values. I'll try that soon on some Swiss material.

I'll just wait to hear from Mark about a correct format for Michel souvenir sheets.

I do use the bulk lister to create new listings

Mark Rosenberg

Phil,

I must admit that I am not too familiar with the Michel Catalog. While I understand that the Catalog Numbers for Souvenir Sheets are not related to the Catalog Numbers for the stamps on the Souvenir Sheets themselves - are they unique per Souvenir Sheet, or are the same "numbers" used for different Souvenir Sheets?

If they are not unique, I believe you should instead enter the multiple Catalog Numbers of the stamps themselves, separated by commas, and just set the "Stamp Format" to Souvenir Sheet.

Michael Generali

Yes, they are unique.

Mark Rosenberg

Could you provide a couple of real examples? along with the corresponding catalog numbers of the individual stamps?

Phil Atarium

Mark, I'll be back at my computer in a few minutes and can supply some live examples.

Phil Atarium

In my listings, I do always include the "Block" number as well as the associated stamp number. (For my sanity as much as anything else.)

Here are a couple of examples:

https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/aden-kathiri-state-mi-block-7a-140-mnh-1967-winter-olympics-1968-grenoble/14427889

https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/ajman-mi-block-214-569-mnh-s-s-1970-fifa-world-cup-mexico-brazil-gold-foil/14427930

In case this helps with your taxonomy, note that, at least with the Michel catalog for this region ("Naher Osten"), there can also be a suffix after the stamp or souvenir sheet number, usually a capital "A" or "B". When an issue has both a perforate and imperforate types, they'll use "A" for the perforate item and "B" for the imperforate."

Phil Atarium

In their catalogs, the souvenir sheets are listed right after the associated stamps, but they also have a list at the end of the country section that lists the souvenir sheets in sequence by Block number along with a cross-reference back to the associated stamp number. (I'll try to post an image of that a little later.)

Ted Tyszka

Here is an example of a listing for stamp MiNr2072 and its associated souvenir sheet, Block 51.

Phil Atarium

Thanks, Ted!

Phil Atarium

Here's an example page from Yemen (Kingdom), that can give you an idea of how they're listed, including the perf/imperf types. (Just a quick phone pic.)

Phil Atarium

And here, at the end of each country, is a list of the souvenir sheets. This is the only way to find the catalog listing of the souvenir sheet within the listings, if all you have is the Block number.

(Like I said above, I put the related stamp number in the listing for everyone's sake, including mine.)

This the chart for Yemen (Kingdom).

Mark Rosenberg

In theory, it should be listed as:

Mi1027, Mi1028, Mi1029, Mi1030, MiBlock4

Assuming the stamps were Mi1027-1030 and then the corresponding souvenir sheet was "Block 4"

This is because Catalog Numbers (on HipStamp) can not contain any spaces. I believe to properly support this, we would need to review our Catalog Number system in more detail.

Michael Generali

Well, for Scott, I enter "Scott #123". I do the same for Michel, "Michel #123", and Gibbons, "SG #123" all with a space after the catalog name I currently don't have any listings using Gibbons numbers.

I agree that the catalog system needs to be looked at. The search functions as well. I don't see where there is any need to enter data in the detail fields as they don't seem to show up in searches.

Take for example that I want to find mint never hinged stamps. I enter "mnh" (the common way to look for such stamps) in the search box and I get 0 results, unless.the seller has added "mnh" to the item title. The details page doesn't display condition as "mnh". Instead it shows, "mint (nh)". No one looks for mnh stamps by typing in "mint (nh)". Unless people know to type in "mint (nh)" in the search box, or the seller doesn't enter the same condition in the title, the result will be 0 hits.

Searches should look at the item title, description and details with the details showing terminology that is commonly used in the hobby, or strengthening the search engine to recognize variations used by the system in the details page. I'm not sure if the topical/subject matter information is used or not. I can add many more items to my store per listing session if I don't add all that "fluff" if the searches don't look for it.

Phil Atarium

Thanks, Mark. What I'm doing for now is the suggestion you made -- to list them in item-specifics-2 with their related stamp numbers and with "souvenir sheet" in item-specifics-5.

Mark Rosenberg

Michael - Just to clarify, in the title of the item, which is where I believe you are referring to ""Scott #123". I do the same for Michel, "Michel #123", and Gibbons, "SG #123"", that's perfectly fine. I was referring specifically to the "Catalog Number" field, which on the Sell form is noted that: "Except for Scott, prefix by Catalog abbreviation, ie: SG45, Mi710, YT15, etc. Separate multiples with a comma or dash (for ranges)."

It's also exclusively the "Catalog Number" field that is searched when anyone searches on HipStamp for a Country / Catalog Number in the main search bar (this is done automatically, and why search results on HipStamp are significantly more accurate than ebay, and other marketplaces).

For example take a look at a search for "United States #1" on:

HipStamp: https://www.hipstamp.com/search?keywords=United+States+#1&parent_id=0
vs. ebay: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=US+#1&_osacat=260&_from=R40&_nkw=United+States+#1&_sacat=260

That being said, if you're using the online Sell form, when you enter your title, all of the additional fields should be automatically filled in for you based on the title (which you can review and correct if needed). So for example, if you enter "US #1 MNH", the Country will automatically be filled in for you as United States, the Catalog Number as "1" and the Condition as "Mint (NH)". This is the same in the Bulk Lister, if you do not specify the additional fields.

With regards to the additional fields, such as Stamp Condition, etc. - these are used in the search engine, and significantly used by our members. These values are what power all of the filters you see on the left hand side of any browse or search results, once a main category is selected. Think of them as essentially sub-categories that allow our members to quickly filter items, just like any other category would.

For example, if I was in your store, and wanted to view all Europe Mint (NH) stamps that you have, I would just click on the category "Europe" and then the Stamp Condition "Mint (NH)": https://www.hipstamp.com/store/the-online-stamp-shop/?show=store&parent_id=7&item_specifics_04_condition[]=mint-nh-

As you pointed out these fields are not currently used in keyword searches (in additional to just the filter section). However, that is planned for the future as well.

Michael Generali

Mark, thank you for the explanation.