Re-perf?

This US Scott 122 is listed as NG- and has a cert ( non APS /PF). The far left margin. To me it looks suspiciously like a re-perf. Is it just my eyes ( or perhaps bias). Thank you in advance to my friends whom I have enjoyed now reading your thoughts for a few years now.5f1db477efe25643f11d9fe6d4794c4e

Comments

  • 18 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • Without having seen the item in question, I think it's a perforated proof. Would need to see it to feel the paper.

    Lou
  • Rene, do you have a back photo of this stamp?
    And can you post the cert also?
  • Well, it has a June 2022 PSE cert that does not mention re-perfing or that it is a proof. I suppose any cert could be in error but I would think that PSE has examined enough of these over the years to recognize any deviations from the norm. It does appear to me that the character of the left hand perfs do not look much different from the right side. The top and bottom look scissor trimmed too.
  • Yes Greg, it is the top I'm most concerned with actually. This is why I was curious to see the perf.
    I didn't expect this to be a perfed proof, as the paper doesn't look white enough, nor thin enough. But that's always hard to tell from a photo. I assume Rene doesn't have this in hand, rather he's contemplating buying it.

    Personally, I don't know why PSE get so much "credibility". My own experience with them is that about 10% of their certs are blatantly wrong. They have a lot of material to go through, and in my view, they "rush" opinions, and miss a lot. Yet, they seem to be "god like" in their cert status, it doesn't make sense to me.

    In any case I find the top suspicious, which is why I'd like to see scans from back, if they're available. And a copy of the cert.
  • Thanks Greg.
    After careful examination of both front and back images, I have to remain skeptical regarding the top perfs. While I agree that left, right and bottom are not reperforations, the top is suspicious in that a fair few of the top perfs are perfectly flat across them, which is abnormal for a naturally separated perf tip. The 4 tips at top right (front) are suspiciously level, with the 2nd and 4th perfs without fiber tufts. They at the very least have been trimmed. That doesn't mean that the stamp is reperforated. It suggests rather an uneven separation that someone, at some point, has cut to trim the stamp perforations to be even against the rest of the stamp. At the opposite side, this may be the case of one or the perfs as well.
    But my view is, the stamp is not reperforated.

  • I concur with Scott. It is not uncommon to see scissor trimmed perfs on stamps for back then for whatever reason.
  • Thank you SO much, I was preparing to put up Scott's requests ( busy working today). The PSE cert is helpful, but like Scott, I give certification some credence, but know humans can be very fallible. I feel it is a relatively decent stamp, yes contemplating. Appreciate my Stamp-friends help! Thank you all.
  • edited November 2022 0 LikesVote Down
    122 is also on my radar. In an attempt to learn I would like to know why this one is worth only half of the other one. I realize that it is not as well centered. But half?

    https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/us-scott-122-90c-lincoln-carmine-black-unused-ng-1869-pictorial/47408989
  • I think its the soiling?
  • edited November 2022 1 LikesVote Down
    Bob, hahaha, I'm happy to see it's my stamp you have there. :)
    This is critical to understanding stamp value. The stamp that Rene is following has 2 degrees of improved centering over my listing. Mine is VG, (50 grade) where the other stamp is F/VF (75 grade). Big gap. If you look at SMQ grade 50 is $1,250 while a 75 is $2,950 (For no gum stamps). What this represents is the availability of such stamps within the population of (known) 122's. PSE have graded 23 122's as NG VG 50, while it has graded only 1 75 NG F/VF. This suggest you are 24x more likely to find a 122 VG/NG than you are a no gum F/VF. While not definitive, PSE have been grading stamps for decades and have a large graded database of stamps. Mine is not graded by PSE, but it falls into this grading category (I don't see a value in paying $100+ to get my stamp graded).
    So, you can see from the SMQ values, there is more than a 2x value difference, according to market data.
    If we look at the graded values in Scott (the "Yellow Pages" prior to 2022), the VG value listed in Scott is $900 and for F/VF, $2,750. Scott does not update it's values as frequently as SMQ, which also follows values from live auctions.
    Similarly, if you look at Siegel a similarly centered VG NG stamp in 2020 sold for $1,100 while a F/VF sold in 2022 with similar centering to this stamp for $2,100.

    I would suggest that this indicates both stamps are reasonably priced for their centering, against current market data/market rates.

    If this surprises you, I suggest that you look more closely at the variation of values based on centering. It's common for stamps prior to 1900 to have terrible centering, and as a result, finding stamps with centering of these issues of VF and above can be very challenging, especially in unused values. The 122 is a great case study for this kind of variation.

    In fact, upon closer examination of this stamp, I think we have our description wrong, as this isn't a 70 centering, it's 50. So I've just adjusted it to reflect that. I think the ask of the stamp Rene is watching is reasonable for the issue. The one thing ours has going for it is it's brilliant color. Too bad the centering isn't better, and I think our bright color actually elevates the stamp slightly. (But I might be biased as the seller).
  • And that didn't take long... now it's sold. ><
  • Scott. I have always seen that the market for older issues greatly values centering. I am very aware how much rarer these issues are in the older ones. As a collector I simply see good enough and not good enough. I need to see the entire stamp image framed with white. As a result I have made many happy purchases of items that would have cost me a lot more if I was more selective. It’s my collection and it makes me happy.
  • Bob, that's exactly the decisions about boundaries that every collector must determine for themselves. Sure, we'd all like to have SUP 100J stamps, but availability to acquire such stamps may be limited to impossible (i.e. they don't exist in these grades, like the 164), and/or even if they are available in the market, their selling price may be way beyond the grasp of the collectors budget. This however, is also one of the beautiful things in philately... there IS something available for everyone. Maybe not in every issue, but there is plenty more in other areas, either within a country, or internationally if a collector so wishes.
    Some of my favorite stamps cost me pennies. Others I spent the "engagement ring" rule, and I feel "yay" I filled the spot, but I rarely look at them.
  • Well , after using the “ concierge “ service very successfully , it now rests in my collection. Thank you all again for your honest , brilliant insights . One more lifetime checklist done . A section complete . Only philatelists understand the “ feeling”.
  • Rene. When I first got here two years ago I found you yearning for #122. Very happy to see a conclusion that works for you. In this case I can truly say I know how you feel as I bought the other, much cheaper, #122. It too completes my pictorials.
  • Nice additions for both of you. There are some stamps that just bring so much joy when you land them.
    For me the #122 is among the top 10 for sure. You can keep your Trans-Mississippi, and your Columbians, this one is such a beauty.
  • It really is an iconic American stamp …and congratulations Bob!
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