Phony stamps?

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I purchased stamps on both Hip Stamp and Ebay of the single sheet. They were listed as Perf stamps and the listing is still active on both sites. I don't believe them to be real because if you look at the pic with 3 in the set you can see they are perforated stamps. Both listings contend they are actual stamps. Is there something I'm not seeing? I've emailed the seller through Ebay but have yet to hear back as I'm trying to decide whether to claim them as fraudulent or not. Comments welcomed.

Comments

  • 25 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • DSCN3574

    This is the back of the first sheet. No gum.
  • Rattlesnake Island is a local post.

    The history of local posts (private mail-carrying entities) in the United States goes back to colonial times. Their popularity peaked in the first half of the 19th century. By the early 1860's, the expanding Post Office Department had made them largely obsolete. Arguably, the most famous of them all was the Pony Express, which existed from April, 1861, to October, 1862, replaced by the telegraph. The story of modern local posts began with the success of Herman "Pat" Hearst's Shrub Oak Local Post, Shrub Oak, New York, in 1953. Since then, there have been at least 127 others documented, including Rattlesnake Island Local Post.

    In the early days, mail was delivered to the island by boat in the summer, and horse-drawn sleigh in the winter. Many a harrowing story was associated with these methods. By 1959, Ralph Dietrick, a veteran World War II pilot, and owner of Island Airways, was providing mail service to North, Middle, and South Bass Islands utilizing the famous Ford Trimotor, or "Tin Goose," as it was affectionately known. This service was enlisted by Rattlesnake Island Local Post upon it's inception, adding not a little bit of philatelic and aeronautical romance to the story. So much so, in fact, that the 1966, 1967, and later the 20th Anniversary stamps all pictured the Ford Trimotor on them, as well as one of the rubber handstamps applied to most mail.

    Approval from the Post Office Department was finally obtained in 1966, and the first stamps, rectangular in shape, were issued on August 27th in three denominations: .05¢ for postcards, .10¢ for letters, and .25¢ for bulk postage - all three in perforate and imperforate form, a practice which was to continue with each years' issue (fig.1). The .05¢ stamp (black and light gray with red text) depicted a map of the island; the .10¢ stamp (pale green with black text) depicted the Ford Trimotor approaching the island; and the .25¢ stamp (pale blue with black text) depicted a boat at the island's dock. Dr. Frackelton, the designer of the stamps, thought the colors, particularly on the .10¢ and .25¢ stamps, were too light. A second printing was ordered with darker colors, and these appeared in September, 1966. Of course, additional U. S. postage had to be applied to each item in order to effect entrance into the U. S. postal system at Port Clinton, Ohio (the 1st class letter rate was then .05¢).

    However, on December 9th, 1966, Dr. Frackelton received a telephone call from the Post Office Department, followed by a letter on December 12th, indicating that Rattlesnake Island Local Post was in violation of Section 475 of Title 18 of the U. S. Postal Code, and was ordered to cease operations. Subsequent investigation revealed that the rectangular stamps were too similar to then current U. S. postage. This was remedied by the resourceful Dr. Frackelton by using the same designs in a triangular form, which won approval. On January 23rd, 1967, the first Rattlesnake Island triangular stamps were issued (fig. 2).

    In 2003, Rattlesnake Island philately was "put on the map," so to speak, with the publication of The History and Local Post of Rattlesnake Island Lake Erie, a book by John Wells, who not only gave a detailed history of the subject, but also provided the first full-colored catalog of the stamps. Prior to that, the only cataloging of the stamps was a 7-8 page loose-leaf, unpublished, handout, "The Schultz Catalog," which was generously provided by William R. Schultz of West Chester, Pennsylvania, to other interested collectors.

    http://www.wichitastampclub.org/RattlesnakeIsle.html

  • I appreciate your post but I don't know if it answered my question. Very informative though. I belong to a Facebook group of Lake Erie. The administrator of the group said her Mother worked at the post office on Rattlesnake Island but it has now closed up. Anyways...there's only one or 2 houses still on the island.
  • You did say this

    I don't believe them to be real because if you look at the pic with 3 in the set you can see they are perforated stamps.

    (It sounded like your claim is that they are not genuine because they are perforated)

    But as the article said

    Approval from the Post Office Department was finally obtained in 1966, and the first stamps, rectangular in shape, were issued on August 27th in three denominations: .05¢ for postcards, .10¢ for letters, and .25¢ for bulk postage - all three in perforate and imperforate form, a practice which was to continue with each years' issue (fig.1).

    They were issued BOTH ways.

    So not quit sure what you are now asking about them.

    Are you sure that the picture of the back actually shows that the sheet has no gum as the reflection from the light would most likely indicate that the sheet does have gum and a possible hinge mark at the top middle left.
  • Actually Michael I'm talking of the ones NOT perforated (fig 1). Not much doubt that the ones perforated are real but there were an additional 6 sheets listed as PERF stamps and you can see the sheet of 1 has no perforations. The listing is still in Hip Stamp (and Ebay). Search Rattlesnake Island and then let me know what you think. The back of the single sheet to me seems to be on print paper. That's why I'm questioning what I bought.
  • Michael...this is the Ebay listing with a pic of the stamps. I purchased 6 sheets. 3 off Ebay and 3 here.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/RATTLESNAKE-ISLAND-1967-3-IMPERF-SHEETS/300306598735?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

  • Here is a copy on cover

    cover


    Here is a copy of it both perfed and imperf


    eb7126i

    The sheet is actually a sheet of 20 stamps.

    As you can see from the cover they were used as actual stamps as a local post.
  • So the imperf stamps such as these have to be cut off the sheet for use? Or can they not be used?

    https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/rattlesnake-island-1967-3-imperf-sheets/9681375
  • In order to use the imperf stamps they have to be cut from the sheet. They don't have to be used either. You can save them as an imperf sheet.
  • Thanks for all your replies. You've been very helpful.
  • Michael -- that cover you illustrated above has the corner card of Dr. Frackleton's little stamp store in Cleveland.

    I used to go there with my dad when I was a kid. Interestingly, the little shop was built next to the convergence of two roads that crossed at an angle . . . and the shop itself was triangular-shaped, just like the triangular stamps of Rattlesnake Island!






  • They allowed First Day Covers to be serviced at the Port Clinton, OH Post Office:


    Rattlesnake II Unfolded
  • Nice cover art, Dave.

    Is there any family relationship with Hubert Bennett?
  • Thanks, Michael.

    We used to joke about that, but no - no family connection. Even funnier, my dad's name was HERBERT Bennett!! :smiley:
  • That's a whopper of coincidences!
  • Hey Michael...and anyone else..are you 100% sure these stamps can be used as postage? There's many different Rattlesnake Island stamps on Ebay. One seller has at least 4 BIN auctions going so I "asked the seller" if they could be used as postage and he replied back that "no they can't". Maybe I need to take them up to my local post office and ask him.
  • These are not valid for use for normal franking. They are local post stamps. The US Post Office could not be convinced to provide service to or from the island, so a local post was established, with permission from the USPOD, to operate a local post which would take the mail of island inhabitants (which were franked with regular US postage stamps), fly it to the mainland, and drop it into the mailstream, at Sandusky, Ohio. The 5c, 10c, and 25c stamps covered the rates for postcards, letters, and parcels, respectively.

    The 1st year of issue, the stamps were in rectangular format. However, evidently, postal workers of the time were no brighter than their counterparts of today, as the local post stamps affixed to the covers were a source of confusion to them. The PO Dept ordered them to desist with the confounding issues. As there were no triangular US postage stamps issued up to that time, it was decided to issue subsequent stamps in that format, to which the USPOD agreed.
  • Appreciate your reply Ted. I guess now these are more for novelty. I live close to this area and that's why I bought them in the first place. I'm in a Facebook group from Lake Erie and the administrator said her Mother worked at Rattlesnake Islands post office when it was open. No official building but operated out of her house. Somehow all mail got to Port Clinton and I assume either by ferry or air (there was a local airplane called the Tin Goose which operated near Port Clinton). Anyways...since I have 3 sheets (that now I paid too much for) I won't be buying more.
  • They are still highly collectible and (IMHO) beyond a mere novelty, as Rattlesnake Island was one of the few legitimate (actually sanctioned postal carrying) Local Posts in recent times.
  • Nostalgic for me I guess. I'll have to mention them to our local post office. Thanks for posting Doug.
  • If we knew what the reason for your purchasing sheets was we would be able to provide more helpful answers. Discount postage, speculation, form a collection, etc all have different sources many of which are not easily found on the internet.
  • I've pretty much gotten the answer I was looking for. Whether or not they could be used for postage. One says yes...others say no. I'll just contact my local postmaster and he should be able to tell me. At one time they could be used but there's no longer a post office on the island. Even at that they had to be brought to the mainland to ship the letters or parcels as the post office there was operated out of someones house. I think Rattlesnake Island only has 1 or 2 houses on it now.
  • Dave,

    They are local posts. They are NOT valid for US postage. They are ONLY VALID for use to send mail to and from Rattlesnake Island. It's for local use ONLY. That's why it's called a LOCAL POST. It's to pay the person to pick up the mail at the Ohio PO and take it to Rattlesnake Island or vice versa.

    To give you an idea of what a local post is

    There are many types of local posts and cinderella stamps. Here is an attempt to clarify them.

    1. LOCAL POSTS - five types.
    a) PUBLIC, local delivery - Local stamps are used to prepay the delivery of mail within a city, island or region. Sometimes they prepay express mail (same day or overnight service). Only the local stamps are used and the mail is delivered by the Local Post's employees and does not go through the national Post Office system. Examples - Many 19th Century Local Posts, Hawai'i Post, Lord Howe Island Courier Post .These are genuine local posts as they provide a real service and the stamps and covers are very collectable.
    b) PUBLIC, national or international delivery - Local stamps are used to pay for the transport of mail from an island or place (that has no branch of the national Post Office) to the nearest branch of the national Post Office or to the nearest Post Office in another country. National stamps are also attached so that the mail can be delivered by the national Post Office system or internationally. Local stamps in the past were often attached to the back of an envelope, nowadays they are usually attached to the left front (the law having been changed in the U.K. for example) - the top right front is usually reserved for national stamps. This kind of local post is available to the general public on the island or place. Examples - Christmas Island (Pacific Ocean), Herm, Hustadvika, Kaulbach Island, Rattlesnake Island etc. These are genuine local posts as they provide a real need for a small population and the stamps and covers are very collectable

    http://www.stampshows.com/local-post.html

    They have more general info about the local posts.
  • By the way, Steiner has pages for Rattlesnake Island stamps.
  • Michael Duehr,

    Thanks for your in depth explanation.
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