HipStamp vs. Ebay -- a buyer's perspective

Alvin Swonger

HipStamp advantages —
HipStamp offers a wider variety of choices for midrange and expensive stamps
HipStamp sellers are more likely to have high professional competence

A wash, more or less —
Many dealers sell items on both sites, usually at the same price
Delivery time: Hip stamps has fewer jack-rabbits but also fewer tortoises. After
concluding a number of purchases on both sites during the same time
period, I’ve noted that the first Ebay orders arrive faster on average but
the last ones arrive later on average.
Quality of packaging: similar
Use of tracking: comparable
Competitiveness of auctions driving up prices: similar at the two sites

Hip Stamp disadvantages (for buyers):
A significant percentage of sellers on Hip Stamps don’t indicate when they’ve
shipped an item, either by marking the “shipped” box or by feedback
Messages to dealers on Ebay always get a response; those on Hip Stamps
often are ignored, especially by the same dealers who don’t notify about
shipping
Transactions always reach some conclusion on Ebay, whether receipt or
refund. Some Hip Stamp transactions screech to a halt, with a dealer not
indicating shipping, the item not arriving in a timely manner, and no
response to inquiries
Fewer Hip Stamp sellers provide feedback to buyers (which I personally don’t
care about, but some buyers do).
Dealer feedback is less meaningful on Hip Stamps than on Ebay because
dealer feedback is padded with automatic positive feedback, sometimes
necessitating going through pages of feedback to find a few genuine ones

Greg Doll

Alan,

Interesting observations. I will assume that you are primarily a customer and both sites and have been for quite enough time to compile your analysis.

I will address your observations from a seller's perspective and not confrontationally.

I sell exclusively on HipStamp as I don't really care much for the EBay platform for a variety of reasons. I do not have a brick and mortar store and am really selling now to prepare myself for retirement in a couple of years. Having said that, I try to present quality material at fair prices with a high level of service, etc, etc. I know like Ebay, there is a wide variety of sellers here ranging from rank amateurs to very large philatelic dealers with store presences and years of experience among the now 1210 stores now hosted by HS. I am also an IDPA (Internet Philatelic Dealers Association) member and adhere to the very strict code of ethics required to hold membership in the organization. While there are many dealers are not members but should be, there are also many who clearly would not qualify for membership.

Again, having said that, I would suggest that all customers adhere to a principle of if do not receive good service from a particular seller, don't do business with them anymore. Just as if one were to walk into a restaurant and received poor service and subpar food, you probably wouldn't go back for a second try. Same thing here and for that matter on EBay or really any other platform for that matter. Internet commerce in general is quite a different animal than face to face business. The customer takes more of a leap of faith with internet transactions that isn't required when face to face. The customer can only view pictures of any items they might have interest in purchasing and cannot physically examine it in person. That requires high quality images, detailed descriptions, and prompt requests to any questions the customer may have on any given item.

One observation I might add to yours is that it seems that many of the "best" HS dealers seem to somewhere in that middle range of store size, do not have a physical store presence, and are not full time dealers. I personally know the owners of many of these types of stores and all take great pride in their responsiveness to customers, timely shipping policies, quality packaging, etc. It seems that many of the complaints I hear come from customers who buy from those stores on either side of this spectrum, i.e. the rank amateurs and the large, high volume operations.

This is not that difficult thing to do. Steps to take to be a high quality online stamp dealer. 1. High quality images and detailed descriptions along with clearly stated store policies including fair return policies and a reasonable certing policy. 2. Prompt response to customer questions along with prompt feedback to customers as to the status of their order. 3. Prompt and quality packaging with the proper paperwork included. 4. Ship items same day or next business day. 5. Notify the customer as to when their items ships. 6. Follow up promptly with any questions or concerns with the customer after they receive their items. Any deviation from these (my) standards are unacceptable to me and should be to any other dealer and customer.

Anyway, too long winded on this by now but I really wanted to respond to your observations because I happen to agree with you but also add to some of your observations. They are interesting and beneficial. There are ways to buy from quality dealers and avoid disappointments. I'll probably get blasted for what I added here by some but I'm a big boy and can take it. All our best to you and thank for your valuable input.

Greg

berrien moore

Greg
What is the link to your store?
Thanks
Berrien

Greg Doll

My comment was not meant to promote my store that is why I did not include it in my comments but since you asked.

https://www.hipstamp.com/store/the-bentley-collection

Greg Doll

Also, check out a couple of really solid stores while you are at it. I know these guys personally and they will not disappoint.

https://www.hipstamp.com/store/tatyszka-stamps
https://www.hipstamp.com/store/cddstamps

George DeKornfeld

And in a flagrant act of self-promotion (tempered by the fact that I adhere to Greg's principles), here's a link to mine...

https://www.hipstamp.com/store/docgfd-coversnstamps

Alvin Swonger

Thanks, Greg, for your response and your obvious effort to adhere to the highest ethical standards. I've seen your name on some of the other message board threads and recognize that you are always highly constructive. I agree with the gist of your remarks. I'd only add that it is not always feasible for a buyer to restrict purchases to dealers known to be reliable for the simple reason that a buyer is sometimes looking for low availability merchandise that might be offered by only one or a few sellers. I typically start by searching for a precise item, not be browsing through the stock of a known and trusted seller. Even when there are many choices, price and condition will typically restrict my options to just a couple or a few of the choices. And since, as you say, there are more than 1200 stores, one will inevitably deal with sellers with whom one has had no previous experience. In such instances, I usually take a look at the seller's feedback record, but it is seldom very informative. So, inevitably, there will be occasional problems along with many gratifying transactions. My main issue with HipStamp is that they appear to do little to "police" transactions that have gone awry, such as ensuring that a seller at least respond to messages that are sent concerning an item purchased where there has been no delivery, no indication of shipping, no refund, and no response to inquiry. Ebay help, it appears, monitors messages and intervenes when no response is forthcoming from the seller. Nevertheless, it is important to balance my concern with due recognition that the vast majority of sellers on HipStamp, like yourself, maintain the highest standards of business practices as well as ethics.

Greg Doll

Alvin, completely agree with everything you just said. And that automatic feedback thing is such a poor beaten horse.

And yes, of course, George has a great store as well but I have my suspicions that Mouse does most of the work. My apologies George (Mouse)!

George DeKornfeld

No worries...Bentley (amazing that a cat is able to use a keyboard...).
Signed Mouse.

Greg Doll

And another I forgot to mention is Scott Payton's https://www.hipstamp.com/store/classic-philatelist

Also an IPDA member along with ASDA and APS.

And Bentley is really good at the keyboard. It just always comes out kkkkkkkkkkkttttkkkkkkeeeekkkkkkk6666kkk. It means something to him I guess.

Alvin Swonger

Just got a beautiful US #478 from Scott and was super-impressed that he shipped the item (from Japan) via airmail and with tracking so that it arrived just seven days after purchase, which is highly unusual for transcontinental delivery!

Greg Doll

Great to hear that!

Alvin Swonger

One more complaint about HipStamp policies: I have been using the "Watching" feature to keep track of items on which I intend to bid. I do so because I "snipe," placing my bids in the final seconds so as to not energize opposing bidders and to protect myself from the rare sellers who use shill accounts to identify max bids. I noticed recently, however, that HipStamp sends e-mails to potential bidders in the hours leading up to an auctions endpoint telling buyers how many other buyers are "watching" the item -- which effectively defeats my intention to keep my interest in the item to myself until the final seconds. From now on, I'll be keeping my watch list on paper separate from the HipStamp site. I don't think HipStamp has any business sharing watch lists with other bidders; it's a burdensome invasion of privacy and makes the "Watching" function disadvantageous to buyers. They'll keep doing it, however, because few buyers will catch on to their sharing the information.

Greg Doll

Interesting. I don't do auctions in my store so I'm not really sure what the pitfalls are but I get what you're saying. I have been tempted to throw a few items out there as auction items, but anecdotally, I hear that many sellers end up selling the item for less then they would like to even through accepted fair offers. I do occasionally bid on lots for my store (and for my own collection) through SAN and they do send me emails regarding my current and max bids and whether someone else has bid on a lot in excess of mine. I assume they send the same to that bidder but it seems kind of odd that bidders would be notified as to how many are actually "watching" the lot. Seems like that would be none of anyone's business to me.

berrien moore

Thank you for the links.

I know well the quality of Ted and Scott's stores and other contributions. I appreciate this expansion of trustworthy sites. I also appreciate the unique internet related contributions of the IPDA. All of this is most helpful to a returning collector (after 50+ years; way, way before the internet!!!).
Best

Berrien

Michael Duehr

Alvin,

Are you aware that you can see the number of watchers on auctions items in your watch list on Ebay?

Alvin Swonger

No, I wasn't aware of that. Is so, it's offensive. It's fine for HipStamp to promote bidding using any information that is public, such as whether a given bidder is currently winning, how much time is left, etc., but the watch list, inferentially, should be a private list to oneself concerning items of interest and when they are coming to their endpoint. When a person puts an item on their watchlist they are doing so because they might want to take action on it at a later time but do not want to do so at present, but their intent is being exposed for all to see. It's similar to social media marketing your personal information to vendors and advertisers. I imagine it's legal but it's not ethical. In any case, buyers should be made aware of this misuse of their watchlists and avoid using the list. HipStamp is a site by sellers for sellers but is not especially buyer-friendly. They are all about promoting sales (which is fine when it stays within ethical boundaries) but very little about helping buyers address transactions that go bad. On Ebay, the administrators themselves trigger the refunds when an item is not received or returned because it is unsatisfactory. On HipStamp, the buyer has to figure out on his or her own how to get that done. If the buyer is lucky, the seller will respond to message contact and make things right. If not, you're left with going through PayPal to reverse the payment. HipStamp should be promotional for sellers while also protecting buyers from failed transactions. After all, good sellers benefit from the reputation of the site for fairness, and that means holding non responsive sellers accountable.

Alvin Swonger

On the rare occasions when I have to return an item on Ebay, Ebay provides a code that I take to the P.O. where they print out the label for the package and Ebay pays the return postage. By contrast, when I returned a HipStamp item that had been literally cut in two by the vendor during packaging, I had to provide the shipping label myself and pay the return postage. The cost of the stamp (about $24) was refunded, but I was still out the $4.70 for first-class postage.

Greg Doll

All very good points Alvin and all the more reason for sellers on HipStamp to be ethical and responsive to their customers (I don't even like the term "buyers" myself. They are humans with the same expectations of performance as in any other shopping expereince if not more so in the internet world). Clearly stating store policies, sticking to them, responding promptly to issues, refunds, and returns,.and not relying on the HipStamp staff to do their work for them. Quality sellers here have no issues whatsoever with sticking to that ethos....others, evidently, not so much. Example, for the few legitimate issues I have had to deal with myself, the majority of the time, the customer ends up keeping the item with a full refund including shipping, which avoids the problem of inconveniencing the customer with having to ship it back to me and the cost of return shipping. High values items are dealt with appropriately on a case-by-case basis but always to the customer's satisfaction. Easy enough to do. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff right?

Alvin Swonger

Sometimes problems arise through no fault of either the seller or the buyer. For example, I purchased a 6c Garfield stamp that catalogues for a bit over $80 mint from a seller in Michigan. Luckily, he sent it to me (I'm on the east coast) with tracking. For some mysterious reason, Garfield and his packaging was sent to Denver, where he ended up at the APO, and from there the former president took an unscheduled trip to Frankfort, Germany. He later returned to the U.S., landing back in the midwest, then slowly made his way to my mailbox. I would have thought that the experience of being assassinated would have taught Garfield the lesson of not traveling alone to strange places, but the guy was determined to indulge in a wild escapade while he had the opportunity, freed as he was from his former collector and prior to settling down in mine. So, the stamp arrived ultimately and I had a little story to tell to boot.

Greg Doll

The well-travelled Garfield! What a story of adventure (and mis-adventure). Reminds me of another Garfield (the cat). But your patience and understanding as a customer in this case (and tracking of course) is a great example of a quality dealer/customer relationship. Kudos!

John Eckhardt

Alvin I would appreciate you reviewing your PayPal account, so you can correct your previous post. I'm the guilty party that damaged your stamp when I attempted to include an additional stamp with your order. In addition to refunding your total purchase price for the returned stamp, I also provided you a $4.70 refund from proceeds received from you on another order. PayPal does not allow you to refund more than the purchase price. Both refunds were made back to back on the same day I received the returned damaged stamp. I also sent you a separate email advising receipt of the returned stamp and issuance of the refund.

I normally don't provide shipping labels because I feel that just slows down the refund process. Do other sellers provide them?

Alvin Swonger

So, you stated in your original response that you assumed I had a big enough sample of experience from HipStamp and from Ebay to provide some accuracy to my observations. From time to time, I pick out a particular part of my collection to work on and I'll binge purchase for a period of time. In the last month, I've made 70 Ebay purchases and 90 from HipStamp. Among the Ebay purchases, three were problematic, one way or another. In one case, the dealer couldn't locate the item and refunded my payment on his own initiative. A second item failed to arrive, the seller and I agreed upon an additional 2 week wait, and then the seller refunded by payment without any further effort on my part. In the third case, which was overdue by 3 weeks, the seller and I agreed to wait a bit longer. I'm confident that it was mailed because the seller indicated almost immediately that it was in the mail and even left me feedback. Furthermore, I want to wait it out a bit longer because I can't find another offering of this particular stamp at a comparable price. Among the 90 HipStamp purchases, 78 culminated perfectly and another 9 are too recent to have reached a conclusion. Three transactions out of 90 have been problematic. One item arrived damaged. I sent the seller a scan of the damaged stamp, but he insisted it be returned for a refund, which I did. I had to pay the postage, but, nevertheless, I'll take that as a satisfactory outcome. The remaining two transaction are similar problems: it's past the time that each should have arrived, the seller left no indication that the item was mailed, no refund has been offered, and two messages in each case have been ignored. One of the items was inexpensive (about $4) but the other was a $450 purchase. In each case, the sellers have had many prior transactions with mostly positive feedback (a few negatives or neutrals), including some feedback within the last month, suggesting the person is still alive and likely not in a coma or deathly ill. HipStamp does not appear to monitor its messaging system and has not intervened to require a response or a refund from the seller. So, statistically, transaction problem are rare -- in the range of 3% -- but lack of attention to those problem by the HisStamp administrators is what poses a problem.

Greg Doll

Alvin, if the "you" you are referring to is "me", I understand what you're saying. If the "you" are referring to is not "me" then disregard my following. I guess what i was saying is that, at least in terms of HipStamp, I don't rely on them to take care of issues I have in general. About the only time I can recall I've had for them to get involved is, for example, when I accept an offer on an item from someone, and they never pay for it. I give it plenty of time in a case like this with several requests as to what the customer intends to do, then I'll get HS to simply cancel the transaction. But I do hear and understand your observations. I, as a dealer, can only do so much with the site host's policies and activities.

Alvin Swonger

John, thanks for the correction. As I said, the outcome was satisfactory and all the more so with the clarification you've made. You responded to the problem, responded promptly, and it was resolved. Thanks. I'm principally concerned with the two sellers who haven't responded at all.

Alan Jacobsen

Ebay doesn't have a stamp forum.

I'm a buyer. I've sold a few on ebay, not many.

Hip stamp's search feature is more user friendly.
I put in country and Scott # and I get what I'm searching for.
On ebay if the Scott # is anywhere in the title, even if it's just in the price
or a dealer stock number it will show up. Making it harder to find what I'm looking for.
I wish I discovered Hipstamp earlier.

berrien moore

Agreed

Michael Duehr

Alvin,

You said this above.

On Ebay, the administrators themselves trigger the refunds when an item is not received or returned because it is unsatisfactory. On HipStamp, the buyer has to figure out on his or her own how to get that done. If the buyer is lucky, the seller will respond to message contact and make things right. If not, you're left with going through PayPal to reverse the payment. HipStamp should be promotional for sellers while also protecting buyers from failed transactions. After all, good sellers benefit from the reputation of the site for fairness, and that means holding non responsive sellers accountable.

The reason that Ebay can enforce refunds and returns is due to the fact that Ebay itself is handling the actual transactions themselves now. When you but something on Ebay you are actually paying Ebay and then Ebay passes on the payment less any fees at that time, so Ebay is involved in those transactions and can enforce those policies. On Hipstamp they can enforce not anything like that due to the fact that when you make purchases on Hipstamp the payment is handled by Paypal. Hipstamp itself is limited as to what they can do on that because they are not directly involved in the transaction at all. Hipstamp really has no power to enforce refunds and returns. Paypal can because they processed the payment. Hipstamp can do other things but it is really limited as to what they can do.

Ron Lenke

Yep, Hipstamp is basically a facilitator. If anything, it ought to be the sellers who decry the largely one-sided resolutions to these disputes when PayPal is the governing and final word arbitrator. One judge Judy is plenty me thinks.

Alvin Swonger

O.K., so HipStamp cannot initiate refunds. I get it. But they do operate the message system and could pressure sellers into at least responding to messages. They also run the purchases platform where there are two buttons: one for payment and one for shipping. They could pressure sellers into routinely using the "shipped" button instead of blowing it off. Think about how different the experience is for a buyer waiting for an item that is at least known to have been shipped vs. waiting for one that may or may not have been shipped. It is foolhardy and inconsiderate for sellers to not indicate when an item has shipped because it reduces buyer patience as well as satisfaction. So, you're letting Hipstamp off the hook too readily. They can't trigger refunds but they could encourage sellers to adhere to some basic norms of good business practice by responding to messages and indicating when an item has shipped.

Jacques Famery

I took the time to read all the above, and I just can't see why a seller would not indicate if an item has been shipped. In any business that's just basic customer service. When I get an order, if there is no problem its shipped the same day or at the lates the following morning. The item is marked has shipped and a feedback is immediately filled. Plus I send an Email with a proof of mailing. If their is a problem, I immediately send a message explaining the problem to the buyer and if a solution is possible the order is sent as soon customer responds or I make a refund. That's it that's all! As for the automatic feedback system, to me its a complete mystery, I have customers who have made orders for the last 4 / 5 years, somme approaching the 700 to 1000 items and still no feed! So, I don't want to start 3rd world war, but personally I am very happy with the auto feedback. The only order that took more than 45 days to reach was an order that was returned with PO mention that the address didn't existe and when I tried Emailing the customer, the address was undeliverable. The auto feedback represents roughly 50% of all feedbacks which is about what used to be % of people not leaving feedbacks. Now at least after 45 days I can throw away the paperwork copies.