Sellers beware!

Dave Loving

I have been scammed! By both the buyer and Paypal!
I sold a stamp in early August for $335, Last Friday Paypal notified me that the buyer had filed a dispute.
Today I rec'd notice from Paypal that they have debited my account.
I've written to the buyer and have yet to hear from him. Paypal never asked me for information.
So, if you want free merchandise simply buy it using Paypal, then 4 months later file a dispute, Paypal sends your money back and the poor schmuck that sold it to you is screwed!
SELLERS BEWARE!
Paypal is not on your side!
Dave
Sam's Stamp Shop

Martin Glaenzer

for that amount you likely have tracking correct?
file mail fraud charges.

Michael Duehr

Dave

Did you check your Payapl account once you got notified that you had a dispute pending? If you a Paypal dispute you should see a notice stating you have a case pending and you need to respond to it. Every time I have gotten one that is where it is. I haven't had that many of them but I have gotten a couple of them.

You have to check for the case on Paypal itself,that is where they will ask you for the information that you need to send
them.) You only have 7 days to dispute it and giving the fact that the dispute was opened before you got the notification it is possible that the time frame for you to send them the information had passed before they closed the dispute.

Dave Loving

Yes, I checked the Dispute resolution page. Sent Paypal an explanation telling them I never heard from the buyer and that I offer No Questions asked refund, then 3 days later get a notice from Paypal that they have debited my account.
Not only am I out the $335 payment, but also the Hipstamp and Paypal commissions!

Michael Generali

You never answered the question if you got tracking with with your shipment. Did you register it as well since it was such a high amount? That would require a signature from the buyer when it was received.

Michael Duehr

What was the dispute for? Was it for non-delivery,item not as described or some other reason? And you also stated that Paypal did not ask for any information in your OP yet in your last post you said you went into the dispute resolution page and then sent them an explanation,what exactly did you send them in response to the dispute?

Bill O'Malley

Dave,

When you told PayPal that you offer No questions asked refund, they simply went ahead and refunded the buyer.

Dave Loving

OK, I'll try to answer questions:
Yes, Paypal Debited my account after I told them I have a no questions asked refund policy.
The stamp was sent Certified Mail on April 8, 2018 and delivered on April 11th.
Yes, I have a tracking #
I originally wrote it was August, but I transposed the date, sorry.
The buyer claims it was not as described, 7 months after he received it.
I've complained to HipStamp, they tell me they have removed him from their system.
I've called Paypal twice, both calls have approached an hour, when I ask to speak with a supervisor all get it a run around.
I was just told by the Paypal agent that they will notify me of the conclusion "If the financial institution EVER comes to a decesion!
Beware of Paypal, they're not on you side!

Richard Willis

I just check it out if you refund a buyer PayPal will not refund their fees.

Michael Duehr

I am just wondering how the buyer was even able to file a dispute after 7 months when Paypal's policy is very clear that a buyer only has 180 days to file a claim. (A bit less than 6 months)

Seeing as it was an item not as described,what exactly did you tell Paypal?

Michael Generali

Certified Mail is not an appropriate service for mailing merchandise.

Henry Brooks

"I was just told by the Paypal agent that they will notify me of the conclusion "If the financial institution EVER comes to a decesion!"

What financial institution ? No one can help unless they have all the information up front

Dave Loving

Michael,
If Certified Mail is not appropriate, what do you suggest? By the way, delivery/receipt is not the issue, he claims it was "Not as Described". All he had to do was send it back for a full, no questions asked refund.
I don't understand how he could file a claim after 7 months.
According to Paypal he paid with a debit card, How that works, I have no idea.

Dave Loving

Carol,
They wont tell me the "Financial Institutions" name. They claim they have no control.
What a scam, 7 months after the sale, they take my money away.
As I said earlier, SELLER BEWARE!
Paypal is not our friend. If you try to communicate with the all they do is put up road blocks.

George DeKornfeld

Certified Mail is perfectly acceptable for mailing merchandise, its just not insurable as is Registered Mail. Many of the large auction houses use Certified, but likely carry private insurance (or self-insure).

Rich Hemmings

Dave -first of all I'm sorry you are going through this. ALWAYS use insured first class mail w delivery confirmation. NEVER use certified. That may seem counter-intuitive but it works. Next of all if you have a good record - and I'm sure you do - with paypal they will refund your money. Try calling them in the evening. Be polite but make it clear you will go to another level. Ranting about paypal never helps, because its the only way on hipstamp. If you put on your site you don't accept paypal: bye bye customers.

Dave Loving

Hi Rich,
Delivery was not the problem, It was delivered and signed for on April 11. 2019. The buyer filed a claim of "Not as Described" with his Card Company on Nov. 9th.
Paypal debited my account $335, and claim they have no control over it.
I was nice, but I did lose it when the PayPal rep told me they will inform me "If the card company EVER makes a decision"
I ship Certified Mail, with private Insurance, I've never had a delivery problem.

Ted Tyszka

Dave, I don't understand, either, why people responding to your post keep harping on the type of delivery used, when the issue is the charge back after 7 months.

The customer paid with a credit card, through PayPal. He does not even need to have a PayPal account to do this. PayPal is just the gateway for the cc transaction. The customer complained to his credit card company that he received an item different than what he ordered. The cc company then filed a chargeback with PayPal, and PayPal charged it back to you.

PayPal is only the go-between here and has no power to refuse the chargeback (as far as I can tell) any more than you do. The credit card company is siding with their customer and is working in his interest. They don't want to lose a customer.

I have first-hand experience in how easy it is to dispute a charge and get a refund, though it was for a digital subscription service rather than a physical product. But I'm sure the credit card company does not apply the same procedure PayPal or Ebay uses in such a dispute - i.e. return the product; get your refund.

The credit card company is simply going to refund and charge back, with the only possible recourse for you being to show his cc company a recurrant pattern of charges and disputes by that customer.

Bill O'Malley

Dave,

Ted is correct PayPal is only the intermediary and they are not to blame. Now was this a credit card or a debit card. You first said a few postings back that it was a debit card on your last posting you said it was a credit card.
A debit card is from a bank and the bank should not have refunded just because the customer said that it was not as described. They would have told the person to contact the seller and work it out. If it was a credit card they will just file a dispute and ask for the money back from PayPal. You can contact your customer and ask for the item back or else you will file a case of fraud.

Rich Hemmings

I still say Certified Mail is a problem. Certified Mail is MARKED as such and is routinely rifled for valuables. Currently the Postal Service does not mark insured mail and therefore it flies under the radar. Whether you use private or postal insurance it is covered. Still safer without certification. Certified Mail is for legal documents. RSH

George DeKornfeld

Registered Mail is the one routinely rifled since the bad guys know that's how valuables are transmitted. The fact that Certified Mail is for legal documents is exactly why auction houses use it, since the bad guys don't expect it to contain anything other than paper. Some of the lots I receive are even handstamped 'Insured' and arrive without issue while I've had plenty of Registered Mail over the years, mostly coming in from Europe, that 'mysteriously disappeared.'

Michael Duehr

George,

You are aware of the fact that customs can open the mail for inspection. Customs in either the US or overseas can seize the items if the customs form is not out properly. Or if there are items that can not be either imported or exported,or if the proper amount is not claimed on the customs form. (And they do not have to seize the whole shipment,they can seize certain items from a shipment. )

And at the bottom of every customs form is a note that states very clearly IMPORTANT: This package may be opened
officially.

Doug Noernberg

I don't recall hearing whether the item ever got returned or not. If not, is this not theft?

George DeKornfeld

Michael - I'm talking about US auction houses sending lots to US customers. I'm not sure how customs forms get into this picture.

Ted Tyszka

Forget it, Doug. This thread is all about certified vs registered mail.

Michael Duehr

You're the one that mentioned that you had registered letters rifled through and some have gone missing from Europe.
If their customs seizes the package it can mysteriously disappear in Europe and it can be opened and rifled through.

George DeKornfeld

Ah, I see what you're saying now. These were inbound to me from Europe but I (mis) read what you wrote as happening to items I was mailing to overseas.

Michael Duehr

I can see how that happened. No problem.

Bill O'Malley

Doug,

You are correct it is about theft from the buyer and that is why I said earlier that the seller needs to contact the buyer since the item was not returned or else he will file a postal theft report since he received the item and then demanded his money back. There are a number of cases where people have been prosecuted for doing things like this.

Dave Loving

I have contacted the buyer through both HipStamp and email last week, so far I have not heard anything from him.
It looks like I will file a claim with the Postal Service.
PayPal is unwilling to do anything, simply telling me it is out of their control. If that is true, then indeed their system is broken.
If you want Free merchandise, buy it through PayPal using a debit card, then several months later tell the Card Company it was not as describe, you get your money back and keep the merchandise.
That means that we, the sellers are screwed, Sounds like theft to me.
SELLER BEWARE!
Dave

Doug Noernberg

Well, this may be new to you (sorry it hurts), but it is not new. This has been going on for a long time. As a default, PayPal takes the side of the Buyer. You know, we are all "big bad corporations" who can just take losses as a tax write-off. Since they were booted from this site, no sense in contacting them via PM. They can't get at it. I would send personal email, kindly requesting return of the item since they already received their refund. If that ship has sailed, and they are still ignoring you, then I would resend another telling them they have a week before law enforcement is contacted, as this is theft. If they still don't respond, then file the report with the proper authorities (whether USPS and/or police) and I would also check APS to see if they are members, as I would report them to that organization, too, for unfair dealings. But yeah, you ultimately have very little recourse. Most of us would just forget about it (pissed as we may be), but ~$300 is nothing to sneeze at...