A $20 fee for a $4 refund?

Jacques Famery

I just had a little "surprise"... A customer, made a claim through his financial institution and in turn through PayPal, because one item received was not has listed and asked for refund.
He never wrote me - The order had 4 items, I don't even know which one is the problem - The order was only for $4,17, so I just didn't bother I authorized PayPal to refund...and now I find I get charged back for $24,17!!
This is one instance where I would love to revise my feedback which I gave initially when I mailed his order. And also add his name to a Dealer Alert type of list.

Mark Rosenberg

We are aware of the issue raised with regards to this buyer and are taking appropriate action.

John Eckhardt

I also got hit today with a $20.00 fee on a $3.00 purchase of 7 stamps sold on July 3rd. Claimed all of my stamps were not as advertised. Hopefully Mark can talk to PayPal and get our money back from this "thief".

Dan Shilcrat

Hello Mark, Like Jacques & John E. I am being Extorted also by X.b.C. over a $1.00 Sale made July '03. I have not yet replied to PayPal & will wait to hear back from HipStamp. Mr. Famery mentioned a 'Dealer Alert' type of List. I am a long time member in good stamping in the NSDA/ifsda & they very conscientiously publish warnings such as this.

George DeKornfeld

Where's the extra $20,- coming from that this dirtbag is getting?? If you refund thru PayPal, isn't the max that can be refunded what the dirtbag originally paid? Does this dirtbag have a name? Report him to the APS in case he's a member!

Dan Shilcrat

Hi George..This is an excellent time for Mark & the Team to step up & put this liar & thief out of business for all time. . A cancer on the whole Site..

Phil Atarium

I think the $20 comes from PayPal charging the seller because the buyer's chargebacks originated by filing disputes with his credit card issuer, rather than going through PayPal directly. (And, of course, he should've just contacted the sellers directly the first place.)

Doug Briscoe

I was also stung by this conman (XBC). I also decided just to refund his entire purchase price (only $2+) and was horrified when I got socked with a $20 penalty.

Michael Generali

If PayPal contacts you about a dispute from a buyer, you need to respond within the time period PayPal states, or else the refund will be issued. You just can't sit on it and wait for something outside of your account to happen. You need to protect your interests. Anything that Mark is doing is secondary to your account.

Dan Shilcrat

I am going to wait & hope for a resolution here. I am sorry that happened to you Doug. yes XBC is buiding a nice collection for free. If PayPal pushes me I will at least request my $1.00 set back first. But I have confidence in Mark. its the week-end little can be done.

Doug Briscoe

Good idea to wait, Dan. I plan to see tomorrow whether PayPal will waive the fine.

Dan Shilcrat

Thank You Doug, I have until AUG. 27 to reply to PayPal.. I'm hoping by that date the entire issue will be resolved. Good luck !!! Waiting a day or two for Mark to deal with PP may be a good idea. I think the postings here are just 'the tip of the iceberg' Michael G. thank You too. I am in that category

John Eckhardt

It did me no good to respond to PayPal immediately. They simply thanked me for my response and notified me they would refund the buyer's money, charge me $20.00 and close the case file as "being resolved". The money has not yet been taken out of my account, so maybe they are having second thoughts. If they take the money out, PayPal is the one benefiting the most by charging a fee that penalizes the seller who has done nothing wrong. Apparently they are more interested in making the buyer happy by just assuming the seller did something wrong while collecting the additional administrative fees to pad their bottom line.

Michael Generali

It does look to be a major swindle operation by that POS.

John, maybe you were the first one that PayPal received a complaint about. When the same buyer makes multiple claims, PayPal's system will raise the flags. It's not PayPal's fault, it's the POS who bought the stamps. That's why I said to respond to PayPal, stating that many sellers have been affected by this buyer, and HS management is aware of it and is investigating. You have to help PayPal connect the dots. I would contact them again, and inform them of the events that have transpired since the dispute was filed against you, and request that PayPal re-open your case. Sitting silent won't work for you, but will cause more money to be given to the buyer and enabling him to grab the money and run, making it harder for PayPal to recover your money. All of you affected contacting PayPal about the problem will. Communications work. I don't know why people won't do it. Anyway, that's your choice and your money.

Jacques Famery

Michael, its all very nice what you say, but in the first place I responded to PayPal way ahead of the deadline. And its only after the case is "closed" that I found out that there would a $20 charge. Second, if I hadn't raised a flag right here nobody would know that the same guy, in the same time period pulled is little trick because we don't have a complete picture. Feedbacks are useless in a case like this and the only people who should have raised a red flag is PayPal who know that they are suddenly getting lots of $20 fees for very small transactions. I will try to reopen my case with PayPal, but I won't spend hours trying to deal with a big machine... I did it once, its just not worth it for one person.

Michael Generali

"but I won't spend hours trying to deal with a big machine... I did it once, its just not worth it for one person."

...and that's exactly how the scammers get away with ripping people off.

Jacques Famery

Just this morning while I'm trying to respond to PayPal, I got two orders which I already filled. You really think, I'm going to invest time and risk to have my PayPal account frozen while they investigate, not knowing if I'm alone trying to prove to PayPal that I am the victim and not the "bad guy". Easy to say...as usual.

andrew Hellenschmidt

There is no way that honest dealers have all made a mistake with this Chen fellow. His actions are disgraceful and he should be banned and held personally responsible for any losses occurred. He seems to have made about 30 purchases before he decided to start stealing. I doubt PayPal will freeze your account over this erroneous fee you were charged, you should follow up.

Cliff Frey

Is X.b.C this person's Hipstamp bidder name? If not, what is it? Thanks.

Jacques Famery

Yes its XbC and yes I have written to PayPal to try to reverse the charge. Will see...

Cliff Frey

Thanks.

Doug Briscoe

Following Michael's suggestion, I went to PayPal today and got an (almost) immediate refund by going into their online chat.
Here's a partial recount of the exchange I had with the rep:
DB: "I received a notice about a dissatisfied buyer who turns out to be a con artist. He has played this scam on a number of my colleagues at hipstamp.com in the last several days. I refer you to HipStamp's forum page for the relevant thread. It's https://www.hipstamp.com/forums/discussion/1847/a-20-fee-for-a-4-refund#latest. I was surprised to find that PayPal had charged me an additional $20 fee."
PP: "I will reverse that fee for you. No worries Doug!"
DB : "Great! I understand that the owners of HipStamp are pursuing this with PayPal on behalf of the other sellers who got scammed."
PP: "Typically we don't refund the fee's. But, the amount is so small I will get you taken care of as a one time courtesy. You may have to logout and log back in to see the $20.00."
DB: "May I respectfully suggest that PayPal state clearly that a $20 fee may (or will) apply if the buyer issues a refund in such a case?" (I also added this in the post-chat feedback.)

Doug Briscoe

Cliff, his order to me was placed under the username "Chen".

Cliff Frey

Thanks and glad to hear PP has been reasonable about your situation.

George DeKornfeld

Where is this 'Chen' or 'Xbc' scumbag located?

Henry Brooks

I am still having a bit of a problem understanding what the $20 fee is for. Can someone help clarify that ?

Jacques Famery

Chen/XBC is located in Collins MS. As for the $20 here is part of the letter closing the case.
"In addition, a $20.00 USD fee has been applied to and debited from your PayPal account.

We understand that you may not have been expecting this case."

I guess its their way of thanking you for doing business with them and bringing customers to them...

John Eckhardt

I received the same computer generated message preceded by "The disputed amount was debited from your PayPal account for the following reason(s): ... Other ...

It is now been more than 24 hours since receiving this message and no debits have been deducted from my PayPal account. I thank Mark and his team for that. They are definitely looking out for both the sellers and buyers on HS making this a great place to do business. Sorry but I don't have the same good feeling about PayPal.... Unfortunately I don't know of any other viable alternative.

Jacques .... Have you checked your PayPal to see if your money has been returned?

Luree Hughes

Carol, I'm with you, why did PP feel the need to charge the $20 to begin with? So with the help of Michael, Doug, Mark and everyone else emailing PP I hope they are not eating the fee. Maybe Chen will have to repay the money. Glad you brought this up Jacques, good call.

John Eckhardt

Luree, here's your answer. Like most of us, this charge back fee came as a complete surprise; however I figured they would need to disclose it somewhere, so I clicked on PayPal "fees" located at the bottom of the page. After scrolling down several more pages, I found a link to "charge back fees". It lists the fees they charge in every country. The US charge is $20.00.

Luree Hughes

Oh my. Thanks for scrolling down a few more pages to read the fine print.